Single Mom to Debt-Free Investor: Anne-Michelle Wand’s Journey to Holistic Abundance in Panama

Speaker 0

In this episode, we chat with Ann Michelle Wand. Ann Michelle is a former single mom turned real estate investor, who now lives in paradise on a Caribbean island in Panama, and she lives debt free. We go through, an average day in her life, and and, man, it sounds amazing. It wasn't always amazing. She had to go through quite a bit of adversity to get where she is now. The impetus for getting into, you know, really kind of standing on her own two feet and standing up for herself and and pushing forward with her own career and taking ownership of her financial situation was a a bad marriage that she was in and and a subsequent divorce. And just I love her story of of, you know, preparing herself for opportunity and and the grit that was involved in the work ethic and pivoting when an opportunity presented itself. And she, made a good bit of money in managing owning and managing a hair salon and also owning and selling the real estate that the salon was a part of, and then pivoted even further into real estate investing and now works with, passive real estate investors, and she's building a community in Panama. So, in a lot of ways, her story is quite relatable, but also it's unique. We've not had a guest on, you know, with her her story at all. So I think for the single moms out there, for any any female investors, woman investors, this this is an absolute must listen for you. And just the, like, the the intentionality and the consciousness that Ann Michelle brings to our podcast today through her story and her encouragement, she's definitely living in abundance, in in multifaceted abundance, and I think you're gonna really get a lot out of this episode. 

Speaker 1

From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. 

Speaker 0

Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Ann Michelle Wand. Ann Michelle is a single mom former single mom turned successful real estate entrepreneur who now lives in paradise in the Caribbean, and we're gonna get into that. She's in Panama. Anne Michelle, how are you doing today? 

Speaker 2

I am absolutely wonderful and really happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. We were chatting a little bit beforehand and, just getting to know each other and and and, you're focusing on your story specifically. And this is I'm excited. This is gonna be I don't know how the not every story is like this. This is gonna be very relatable yet unique. So I think a lot of people are gonna be able to, relate to this, but, also, it's it's it's pretty different as well. So I'm excited to dive in. So, you mentioned to me before we started, recording that a, one of the well well, I'll let you you, take it from here, but a a bad relationship was kind of the impetus for what started your your growth and your mindset change and and and all this, eventually getting into real estate investing. And I I failed to mention your business is called Passive Profit Partners, and we'll get into that, more toward the end. But, talk to us about your your backstory and and your marriage specifically that, maybe didn't go so well, and and give us some more context there. 

Speaker 2

1. Well, I always had a wanderlust. I love to travel, but I ended up getting married young and having children very young, and the relationship wasn't so good. Now I stuck with it as long as I could, but eventually did end up divorced and a single mom. Well, as a single mom, I needed to provide for my kids, you know, over and above whatever dad would provide, which wasn't much. And I started out with jobs, but with my personality, I would usually end up in a manager position, and I realized quickly that I should start my own business in order to make more money and live the lifestyle I wanted for my kids and myself. So I tried a few different things, to get my bearings. I moved from the mountains of Colorado down to Boulder, Colorado, and I wanted to send my kids to private school, Waldorf School, but I didn't have the money. So, I started a catering business after working in restaurants for a a couple of years. And that I was able to build up enough income to put my kids in private school, but I didn't have nights, weekends, or holidays with them because that's when people wanted catering. Sure. So I quit you know, while I was in catering doing the catering, I decided I would put myself through beauty school and become a hairdresser because that had the flexibility I needed as well as the income. Mhmm. And I did that. And within three years, I had built a beautiful clientele and went looking once again for a better opportunity. So from that, I walked into this lady's, salon and wanted to rent a booth there, and she had owned the salon for oh, seventeen years and was ready to retire. And she said, why don't you not just rent a booth, but buy the salon? Wow. And she offered me a deal I couldn't refuse, a small down payment and paying it off over three years, and she also owned the building so that once I paid off the business, I could buy the building from her. And I I just said it was a no brainer. I had to do that. And immediately upon moving from working in a salon to owning my own, my income went up twenty five percent because there were other hairdressers besides my own income providing it, and I expanded the salon, added facials and nails, and remodeled the building, and increased that business. And then about fifteen years later, I was able to to sell the whole thing at a big profit. 

Speaker 0

So 

Speaker 2

that was one of my first forays into real estate, and I realized that was gonna be my retirement account. I was gonna invest in real estate from now on. 

Speaker 0

And so And Oh, so that when you at the end of the fifteen years, that included the sale included both the business and the real estate at that point? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I I wanted to sell just the business and hold on to the building Mhmm. For a few more years for appreciation, but she wanted the building so badly that she said, tell me the price you would want in in five years, and I'll pay that. So I I Wow. I did some calculations and named a price, and she paid 

Speaker 0

1. Wow. 

Speaker 2

It's amazing. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. That is amazing. And I gotta 

Speaker 2

say right. 

Speaker 0

I mean, you you you know, people might say, well, you you know, and Michelle got lucky that this, you know, this lady was the timing was was there, and this lady offered this business. But the you know, I would counter and say, well, you put yourself in that situation because you were seeking an opportunity to better yourself and provide income and flexibility for your kids. And so had you not been seeking that opportunity and and, you know, kind of putting yourself in that position, that never would have materialized. So, you know, both things can be true. Maybe there was some luck involved and but also you were prepared and and ready to say yes to that opportunity. What would you say to that? 

Speaker 2

Well, I believe what Oprah says, you know, luck is when opportunity meets preparedness just like you're saying. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I've been a, a person that believes in evolving myself, you know, 

Speaker 0

both 

Speaker 2

physically, mentally, spiritually on every level for a long time. And I did a Tony Robbins course when I was eighteen years old and have been on a conscious journey since then. So I know that mindset and confidence is eighty percent and twenty percent strategy. You know, you can figure out how to learn how to run a business. You can figure out how to invest in real estate, take courses, do whatever you gotta do, read books, watch YouTube. Mhmm. But if you don't have the success mindset that you believe in yourself and that you can do it 

Speaker 0

Yeah. You 

Speaker 2

know? And an example is like Henry Ford. Right? If you believe you can, you can. If you believe you can't, you can't. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Right. Either way, you're prob you're either way, you're you're gonna be right. 

Speaker 2

Way, you're probably right. So that's been my philosophy and how I've operated and how these opportunities created for me. I have I could give you multiple stories of how I took advantage of opportunities the universe brought to me, and I recognize them 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

For myself. 

Speaker 0

I love that. Are you willing to put any numbers to that first deal as far as what you, purchased everything for and then what you exited for? 

Speaker 2

I prefer to keep that private. 

Speaker 0

Alright. Fair. Well Thank you. No no problem. You know, it's we're we're we're it's obviously up to you as far as how vulnerable you wanna be. Okay. So you exited the with the the the price she you named and she paid for both the real estate and the hair salon business, then what happens? 

Speaker 2

Well, another way that I invested in real estate, was that I I found properties that were that were fixer uppers. I was, you know, doing fixer uppers, fix and flips, and that kind of stuff. And I took a course to learn how to do that, and then I said I gotta try this. But in the beginning, I didn't have the down payment for my first house. So what I did was I borrowed twenty thousand dollars from my sister and was able to qualify for the loan because I had the salon, and had good income and pay make the payments. And that house happened to be on the outskirts of Boulder, Colorado on an acre of ground. And I found out through some research that if you annexed into the city of Boulder, you could subdivide the land into four quarter acre lots, and hook up to city services, as well. Nice. So I did that. I got my neighbors around me were in the same position, and I gather we we all together annexed into the city, got the services, split our lots, and I lived in the house for five years fixing it up and sold the three lots. I was able to pay my sister back the twenty thousand. The house was a hundred and eight thousand dollars. And and the I think, I can't remember what I sold the lots for, but maybe I sold each of them for fifty to seventy five thousand. And then with I was able to pay her back and buy another property. You know, I had a down payment on the next property. So I did that a couple more times with excess land, and that's something people don't think about a lot. But if you can find a a town well, there's, like, a hundred thousand people. It's an immediate, you know, small town. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

You can do stuff like that. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. That's I've not heard that. We have not had anyone talk about that on the show for sure. I mean and there there are a lot of ways to be creative in real estate, but you were looking for an opportunity and then researching and then probably asking questions and then talking to the right people and just making it happen. That's So I love that. It's that's not something that just fell into your lap, but yeah. I mean, it but but then you realized it was an opportunity, and you and then you you did it, you said, several more times? 

Speaker 2

I did. I did it two more times, and then I did. Then I was buying rental properties, you know, for buy and hold. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

I generally keep them about five years and then, you know, and depreciate them down and then resell them and move into a bigger property where I ended up with duplexes and, up up to even a forty four unit apartment building and a vacation home in Hawaii. 

Speaker 0

Wow. 

Speaker 2

And some of those I did with partners, so I actually formed groups even back then of people to invest together. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. And before we, hit record, I think you mentioned, or at least I read about ten thirty one exchanges. So were you doing that at that time? 

Speaker 2

Yes. I didn't wanna pay taxes right at that time, so I would have deferred the taxes by trading up to a more expensive property. That's how I ended up with bigger and bigger properties until we had, you know, multifamily. And then it became clear to me that multifamily was the direction to go Mhmm. 

Speaker 0

In the future. Yeah. So for those unfamiliar, we're not gonna get in the weeds on it, but what is a ten thirty one, and how does that work? 

Speaker 2

It's when instead of you instead of just selling the property and then paying the taxes and keeping the profits, you more or less, you trade up. You find a property you wanna buy that's more expensive than the one you had, and you have to find it within a certain time frame and a custodial company, a ten thirty one company, has to do the transaction for you. It's sort of hands off for you. You don't touch the money, and they flip the money into the next investment. Is it in a nutshell? 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Yeah. And then 

Speaker 2

say that's correct? 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Absolutely. And you're, I've never actually done one myself, but that that's absolutely correct from what I know. And and You 

Speaker 2

can defer until you die if you want to and get that get pass that tax burden onto your heirs. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

But I didn't do that. When I decided to move to Panama, I slowly cashed out one property at a time as I was moving here, and I did that slowly over a period of a few years. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Then I definitely wanna talk about Panama and the the abundance you're living in. I know it's not only financial abundance. But before we get there, speak to the real estate investor who's maybe younger and starting out, maybe even in today's market conditions, interest rates are very high. How do I know which niche to get started in? And, of course, we know there's no one size fits all answer to this and depends if you're are you working seventy hours a week already? Are are you unemployed? You know, there are a lot of variables here. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. 

Speaker 0

But to the newer real estate investor, how do I do my first deal, or how do I decide which niche to pursue? 

Speaker 2

Well, if you you know, you're you're right. There's no one size fits all. If you've got some time on your hands for a side hustle I mean, I own two salons and did real estate as a side hustle to begin with and later made it my full time occupation realizing that becoming an agent, would give me access to the MLS for deals 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And also helping other people, you know, buy homes, buy and sell homes at 

Speaker 0

the same time. Way, you were a single mom. Right? 

Speaker 2

I was a single mom. 

Speaker 0

So that's not to be forgotten. That's pretty impressive. 

Speaker 2

Not to be forgotten. You you know? So depending on your situation, if you've got a full time job, maybe you just wanna do, a more passive investment where someone else does the work 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Or just try a single family, you know, fix and flip Mhmm. If you have the down payment for that and then the qualifications to qualify for a loan, or you can partner like I did with someone who has the down payment and split the proceeds with them. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. You know? Absolutely. Yeah. So I agree. It comes down to, you know, what's your experience and and what are your strengths? It could be money. Maybe you have money to put to work, and you don't have a lot of time and energy, and you wanna partner with someone like Ann Michelle and put your money to work. Or maybe you are in between jobs and you have no money and you've got lots of hustle and you're willing to go talk to people and find someone with money. Lots of ways to do it for sure. But I think you gotta figure you know, ask yourself, what's your experience? Where what are your strengths? Kinda what are you working with, and what do you where do you wanna go? Right? And do you need cash flow, or do you need profit in five years? You know? That's that's in twenty fifteen, I I've been a real estate investor for about five years, but, kinda made a mindset shift myself. And I said, you know, who what are my strengths? Who's in my network that can that can help me and that I can work with and that I can help as well? And then instead of focusing on woe is me and the, you know, the, the things that are obstacles, it's just like, no. What can I work with? And and that mindset shift really changed everything. And, not to say it's all been rainbows and butterflies ever since because the the there are always struggles, and we're we're never done with adversity. But that that mindset shift was critical in in just realizing, you know, it helped me eventually, you know, leave my w two and, go into full time real estate investing. But we'll save my story for another another episode. So moving to Panama, I mean, you you mentioned, to me before we hit record that you researched a lot of different countries and locations that everybody said were amazing. Most people wouldn't even think to leave the US, but, you know, twofold. One, how do you decide to even cons how do you consider leaving the US? And then two, how did you decide on Panama? 

Speaker 2

Well, I always had a wanderlust, and I like to release my limitations and expand my horizons. So traveling was a thing for me. And every time I had a vacation, I would go to a warm exotic beach and see what it was like and thought, could I live here? And I not visited enough of those locations, you know, in different parts of the world, Caribbean, Hawaii, Thailand, Bali, all over Central America, Costa Rica, Mexico. And when we walk and I discovered Panama kinda I'll I'll tell that story in a minute. But, when I walked off the plane after deciding to come to Panama as a potential, it was like, I could live here, you know, just looking around and exploring. It was like this feeling that I got. And I always listen to my gut. So 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Within the four days that we were there the first time, I had put a deposit on a property. 

Speaker 0

Wow. 

Speaker 2

But and I'm also, you know, an adventurous soul and willing to take a bit of risk, and I had a little bit of resources behind me to do that. Mhmm. So that's important to consider too. It's like where you're at, where you're willing to go. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Maybe maybe it's not for everyone. Right? 

Speaker 2

I thought I would move to Hawaii. I thought I would move to Florida like everybody else. Mhmm. But I visited I I owned a vacation home in Hawaii, and I didn't like it that much. I made a good profit on it. I bought it after hurricane and Nikki when everybody was selling and sold it, about five years later, and that's how I got cash to come and invest in Panama. But, 

Speaker 0

Yeah. No. That's that's interesting. Yeah. It's definitely that's the that is the new unique angle that we were referring to earlier. I mean, not too many people would even be willing to move outside the US who are from the US and then move to Panama. So, speak about the the abundance. I mean, I do have, some questions, we'll get to here, but speak about the abundance that you're living in right now. What does that look like? Is it financial, mental? What kind what what kind 

Speaker 2

of abundance? I'm sorry to interrupt. 

Speaker 0

Go ahead. 

Speaker 2

I always had a dream that I wanted to live in a cottage by the sea with clear blue turquoise water. That was a dream of mine for a long time that I kept in the back of my mind while I was raising my kids, and intentionally moving, you know, and exploring that direction. So the abundance that I live in now is I have that cottage by the sea with a now very healthy romantic relationship that I a man I've been with for almost twenty years now. 

Speaker 0

Wow. Congrats. That's great. 

Speaker 2

And he happened to he just happened to be a guy with a tool belt who knows how to build homes. 

Speaker 0

Right. That didn't hurt. 

Speaker 2

We we designed and built our own home on land that I had bought twenty five years ago. 

Speaker 0

Wow. 

Speaker 2

And I get to look out. Any one of my windows that you look out, pretty much you're gonna see lush green vegetation or you're gonna see Caribbean ocean water with those gentle waves lapping against the shore. 

Speaker 0

That's amazing. 

Speaker 2

And and it's it's not a bad dream to have, but I live there. I'm also always been health conscious all my life. Mhmm. My younger years, I did a little bit of, petite modeling, and I learned how to eat well and exercise and drink a lot of water at a very young age and kept those habits with me. So at my at my mature age now, I'm still healthy, and I take no medications. 

Speaker 0

That's great. 

Speaker 2

And I exercise five days a week. I do different things, so I don't get bored. Sure. I eat we eat very healthy, mostly on the vegetarian, vegan side at this point in our lives, and we're feeling really good in the on that diet. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So physically taking care I think your body is your temple, and you need to take care of it by exercising and eating well. Yeah. Your mind is also thoughts become things, so you have to pay attention to your thoughts so that you what you create is what you want and not what you don't want. 

Speaker 0

Right. They're so powerful, and and people end up thinking that they are their thoughts, and then their thoughts control them. Right. You know? We can control our thoughts. 

Speaker 2

Create emotions, and emotions creates reality. 

Speaker 0

Behavior, which creates reality. Right? Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Also, I think important point is spirituality and connecting to something bigger than you. Mhmm. 

Speaker 0

You know, 

Speaker 2

whether you believe in in God or the universe or Allah or I don't I don't care what it is. But Mhmm. To have something that you can have faith in outside of yourself is an important piece to have the confidence and the spirit to be able to do things knowing that you're not alone in this world. 

Speaker 0

Very true. Couldn't agree more. And what is what is a a day in your life look like or maybe a week? You know? Are you 

Speaker 2

Okay. Well, I am what I call financially independent financially free. You know? My time is my own, and I've been that way for for a number of years. So what I've chosen to do is I generally do not book any appointments before ten o'clock in the morning. I get up early. I'm up probably five, six in the morning, and the first thing I do is meditate, have a routine, a morning routine that keep that puts me in the right mindset for my day. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So I meditate, and I meditate intentionally on my on my goals or just for general well-being, or I pray for someone else. Once I've meditated and then I'm, you know, feeling harmonious in within myself, I get up and I I drink my magic drink. Okay. My little smoothie that's made from superfoods, and then I exercise. And it might be different exercises on different days. There's I do yoga or Pilates. I put on a a YouTube video, and I do it just, at home. Or I might go to town and ride my bike, or I might swim because I can swim right out my front door and snorkel out there. So I go say hello to the fishies. Right. Or I kayak. So I I like I said, I get bored usually, so I don't do the same exercise every day. Yeah. But I do exercise four or five days a week, and then I take two days off to just rest my body. After I exercise, I take a shower, I eat breakfast. By then, it's about nine thirty. You know? 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And, I generally have some kind of work scheduled 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

On any given day between, like, ten and twelve thirty. So I work for a couple of hours, you know, either doing a podcast visit like this Yeah. Or working in my project or talking to people about, investing in the project Mhmm. Or even going to see a piece of land or meet a client. You know? Next month, I'm gonna be speaking up in Boquete to a women's group. 

Speaker 0

Nice. Yeah. So you work a few two or three hours a day. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I work and then I take lunch. I'll take about a two hour lunch and either eat at home with my husband because he works from home too. And or I might go to town and have lunch with a friend. And by the way, for me to go to town, I live on an island, I have to go by boat. We live we live completely off grid with solar and rain catchment, and we and our car is our boat. It's ten minutes to town 

Speaker 0

Wow. 

Speaker 2

To go to restaurant or grocery store. But it's an adventurous life that I love and I'm healthy enough to do right now. 

Speaker 0

Sure. It's a choice. Right. 

Speaker 2

Right? So, then I I generally will work another couple of hours in the afternoon. And if I don't have anything scheduled, then I'll do one of my hobby things. Like, I love to bake, and I'll bake bread I bake bread. I don't eat bread, but I bake it for my husband because he loves 

Speaker 0

1. And Gotcha. 

Speaker 2

And I bake bread every week for him. And I enjoy it, just the the kneading of the bread and it's, again, it's creating something from Yeah. Nothing. Right. 

Speaker 0

Well, I mean, that's what entrepreneurs are investors really are. I mean, it's I used to think I'm not I wasn't creative. I'm not creative. 

Speaker 2

You know? But 

Speaker 0

You are. No. It's running a biz creating a business or, you know, adding value to a real real estate property. You're creating something. So you're Yeah. 

Speaker 2

You know? So I read the four hour work week, and I I generally work about four hours a day. Yeah. And then Gotcha. By four o'clock, I'm I'm either preparing dinner or getting ready to go out to dinner Nice. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

For the evening. 

Speaker 0

No. It sounds like a fantastic lifestyle. I mean, I I I don't think I'll ever retire per se because I do enjoy working some. 

Speaker 2

And I tried. I tried to retire. 

Speaker 0

Okay. Didn't didn't work. 

Speaker 2

Didn't work. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. And I think that's that's so that's amazing. And just the fact that you're willing to just be so intentional and conscious about about everything. And and to be clear, you've you've put in a lot of work before to get where you're at now. 

Speaker 2

In the past, I worked a lot more than this. You know? When I owned my real estate franchise, which I opened in two thousand twelve and then sold in two thousand twenty one, I worked, like, full forty hour work week showing property to people in a boat. It's mostly properties on the islands here. But it was, again, another fun adventure. And when I got tired of it, I I sold it. You know? And I did that three years ago. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Yeah. So and you may have, you know, more, professional adventures ahead of you. Right? 

Speaker 2

It's possible. I'm I'm thinking that this, multifamily that I would like to create Mhmm. A little conscious community 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

For elders and their children might be my last formal project. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Okay. I've got some more rapid fire questions here. Are you ready for those? 

Speaker 2

Sure. 

Speaker 0

What is one thing this one trips people up sometimes. What is one thing that people misunderstand about you? 

Speaker 2

What's one thing that people misunderstand about me? I think I'm not that easy to get to know at first. I'm kind of a quiet, more of an introvert 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Except if I'm intentionally reaching out to someone for a purpose. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

But, like, a party or something, if I don't know anybody, I might wait for someone to come up to me and start a conversation. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Not not necessarily reach out to them, although I can do both. So people don't they might see that as a bit, me as a bit standoffish, and that would be a misunderstanding because I'm really very friendly and openhearted. 

Speaker 0

Understood. That makes I I can relate to that. What's one of your biggest failures in Michelle? 

Speaker 2

Wow. Well, I don't I don't believe there are failures to start with, only learning experiences. 

Speaker 0

Well, the second part of the question is what did you learn from that experience? So 

Speaker 2

Yeah. That was I would say one of the biggest ones was the two thousand eight crash. 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

Because previous to that, I was really I was invested in multiple single family homes in Mhmm. Different in, three different states. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And I was overleveraged because you could put, you know, zero down or five percent down, and you get these adjustable loans, and you put these renters in the property Right. At the time at the low rate. So when all their bottom dropped out of that and property values went down so quickly 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And interest rates went up so quickly, people couldn't pay. They lost their jobs. And so we had to, I I lost probably a third of my portfolio that I couldn't hold on to. I was lucky enough, more lucky than some, to be able to hold on to some that I'd had more equity in. Mhmm. I had to had to let go of that, and I learned from that not to overleverage, not to Mhmm. Count your chickens before they're hatched, you know, that type of thing. And I will never put my in that position again, which is why I did what I did today was I built everything I had today with no debt. You know? I own my commercial office building where my business was, and I now rent out to other people and own my own home with my husband 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Debt free. And that's gonna stay that way even though they say that it's not it's it's dead money. 

Speaker 0

Right. 

Speaker 2

I don't care. I have other money I'll invest, you know, that I've built up from the investments. And other people can do that too. You know? If you make a plan, a strategy, and you put a certain amount of money aside, I don't care if it's ten bucks or a hundred bucks or a thousand bucks or ten thousand bucks in a fund for your future real estate investments or your stock market investments or whatever you've chosen as your vehicles. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

You will have then a pot that you can start with, you know, and build from there. And I started with nothing. I borrowed money to start with. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. So it's amazing. Speaking of money, if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? 

Speaker 2

Oh, I'd I'd build my community. I only need seven million. I'd take the other three million and put it in a passive investment. 

Speaker 0

There you go. So speak more about your community. What is what is that exactly? 

Speaker 2

Well, I call it it's the company is Passive Profit Partners where you invest and we do the rest because I wanna create an intentional community for elders and their digital nomad kids, basically. And the impetus for that comes from more than ROI. Really, I'm into impact investing that's going to impact my community and the people in it and even outside of that, on multiple levels. So it was born of that intention. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And I at the same time, I saw a gap in the community here in Bocas where I live from being in the real estate business here for a long time of a shortage of any kind of community where there were amenities provided. There weren't there weren't even any swimming pools in Bocas fifteen years ago, and now almost everybody's putting one in. So to think about a fifth you know, you you know what an over fifty five community provides pickleball and swimming pools and gardening 

Speaker 0

I love pickleball. 

Speaker 2

Clubs and game rooms and event centers and all of that stuff, as well as a little bit of health and wellness incorporated in there so you can do alternative therapies and Mhmm. You know, healthy dining so that And I wanna see people go into their older years 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Thriving and not just surviving. And I think with the situation in the US as it is today Mhmm. Many people can't afford what that takes to do in the US. So they're looking for alternatives, and a percentage of them may be adventurous enough to move to Panama, or maybe they've explored on a vacation and said what a great place this would be. Or their kids have explored on a vacation and said, yeah. This would be cool, but I got my parents back in the states. You know? Well, now the whole family can come, invest in a project that not only they could live in part time or full time, but it'd be a fractional ownership, provide an ROI as well. So, and you don't have to wanna live there to get you know, you can just be an investor and get ROI, or you could do both. 

Speaker 0

That's fascinating. Yeah. That's that's really interesting. Let's see here. What what is a a challenge speaking of your your business, your project that you're working on, what is a challenge that you're facing with that right now? 

Speaker 2

Well, a challenge is I think people have some misconceptions. One, about Panama and fear about investing outside the states because most people wouldn't even think of it. And I'm I strive to educate people so that that fear, you know, goes away and so that they know there is opportunity and that it provides great diversification for their portfolios, to not only, you know, invest outside their state, but invest outside their country. It's just more safety in uncertain times to not put your eggs all in one basket. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Makes sense. What is one thing in in your field of expertise in real estate investing, that almost no one agrees with you about. 

Speaker 2

No one agrees with me? I'm gonna have to think about that. 

Speaker 0

No problem. Anything controversial? How about we'll pivot and what's something controversial that you see in real estate investing? Yeah. I know you're removed from the US, but do you is there anything you see that's, you know, people should avoid or that's controversial when it gets comes to real estate investing? 

Speaker 2

People should avoid or that's controversial. I think it's important to bet and research your deals thoroughly, you 

Speaker 0

know, make 

Speaker 2

sure they are a fit for you, whatever it is. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. 

Speaker 2

I remember one apartment building that I bought back in, oh gosh, the nineties probably. And it was in a, not so great part of town in Denver. And but I I thought I saw the signs of it gentrifying, and I was wrong. You know? And I bought the apartment building, and I couldn't it was the one investment I couldn't really turn around. So I I didn't lose money on it. I sold it for breakeven, but I didn't make money on it either. Mhmm. And then I learned from that to, you know, take risks, but not too much of a risk. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Sure. What do you think is is the biggest psychological barrier that real estate investors face today? 

Speaker 2

Fear. I think is that fear is a big psychological barrier to get started, to continue when you hit a roadblock, to overcome obstacles that are inevitably gonna come in your way. And if you can create less fear within yourself 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Absolutely. 

Speaker 2

Be able to make those leaps better. 

Speaker 0

For sure. And like you said, that that it's inevitable, right, that you're gonna have obstacles. So, you know, we shouldn't be surprised when they happen. We don't know how they're gonna appear, what they're gonna look like, but, oh, here it is. Right? I knew this was coming. How has we already spoke about this, but if you you have anything to add, how has financial abundance and in your case, it's living debt free specifically. But how has financial abundance made your life better? 

Speaker 2

Well, my schedule is my own. You know? I I can make it gives you options. Having financial independence gives you options. And that once I actually achieved it and got here and lived in the house and, had enough passive income to pay my bills, I was like, okay. What now? So in a way, it's never ending. 

Speaker 0

You Sure. 

Speaker 2

And I had to create I reached all my goals that I had for myself, and I had to create new goals. 

Speaker 0

Sure. Absolutely. I love that. What is a book or two that you could recommend to our listener? 

Speaker 2

I recommend anything by Greg Braden, doctor Joe Dispenza, or Bruce Lipton. Three scientists, doctors that have scientifically proven that thoughts become things and that we can create our reality from our mindset and that that's eighty percent of the journey. 

Speaker 0

Got it. You already spoke about your community and and serving those specific people. How else do you like to serve others? 

Speaker 2

Well, I'm a member of Rotary, 

Speaker 0

so 

Speaker 2

I do volunteer with Rotary. Mhmm. And then I hope to have as part of my community, like, a scholarship program for people that might not be able to afford to live in a place like that. There's particularly, that's how we'll include this is mostly targeted towards expats and their families. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. But I 

Speaker 2

think there's some Panamanians that would love to live in a place like that too and might not be able to afford it, so I'm hoping to have a section for them. 

Speaker 0

Makes sense. 

Speaker 2

I hope to incorporate for our employees, even have them be part fractional owners even though they probably wouldn't live there and part participate. They can put a portion of their salary, you know, into the investment as well. Have multiple levels of ways to invest for multiple people because it's important to me to have a ripple effect. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

You know, jobs for people, places for people to live, you know, improve the community and have it and and the investors outside the community and everything. 

Speaker 0

So from a next step standpoint, if someone hears this, is your is this project fully operational, or how can they get started working with you? 

Speaker 2

The way to get started is I do consultations 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

With people initially. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And they can set that up from my LinkedIn portfolio. Okay. My LinkedIn profile 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

It has all my information there. 

Speaker 0

Nice. I 

Speaker 2

also have a website that they can contact me. It's w w w dot passive dash profit dash partners dot com. Yeah. All the information is all there, but I start with a conversation like this on a Zoom call where we can get to know each other, see if it's a fit for you, or if there's another way that I can help you. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Or if 

Speaker 2

people just wanna relocate to Panama, I provide, consultations for relocation services. 

Speaker 0

Nice. Okay. Good to know. What is one question that you wish I'd asked that I have not asked? 

Speaker 2

I I don't know. 

Speaker 0

Anything else you wanna touch on at all before we head out of here? 

Speaker 2

Well, I just wanna encourage people to focus on the inner game and never give up. You know? 

Speaker 0

Love that. And And that's really what the show is all about. I mean, we do try to provide practical, you know, next steps and and tips in real estate investing and you know? But, ultimately, it is the the mindset piece and the mental fitness and that inner work is so important because, like you said, you can read a book or multiple books on real estate or watch YouTube videos, and the the the mechanics of it, you can learn or partner with the right people who know that. But if you don't have that mindset piece and the mental fitness piece down, you're you're not gonna go very far. So, I love that. So LinkedIn, and Michelle Wand, and then you gave the website 

Speaker 2

Juan, and I have a page, passive profit partners. 

Speaker 0

Perfect. This has been great. And, Michelle, thank you so much for your time. This is, like I said, I think a very relatable yet unique story, and so I think this is gonna be one of the more popular episodes we've had. So thank you so much for joining us. 

Speaker 2

No. You're so very welcome. I am honored to have met you and be able to share information with you and and communicate. So, hopefully, your listeners will find value in it because that's my goal. 

Speaker 0

I think they will. And to the listener, thank you for joining us and spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. 

Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.