Navigating Career Change: From Military Prosecutor to Real Estate Lawyer to Entrepreneur with Brian Gallagher

Speaker 2

00:00

 On this episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast, we chat with Brian Gallagher who is an attorney in Maryland. We have actually worked with Brian for years now because he's so good to work with, and we actually talked about that in this episode, how he's very relationship-based. He doesn't approach his business as Transit from a transactional standpoint, but we talk about what Brian's up to today, but we also dive into his backstory a good bit. Brian served in the military and was worked with, I guess, detainees and interact. And then when he got back from Iraq, he went through a pretty rough time personally. And we talked about that, and then talk about how he bounced back and ended up working for particular Law. Firm for 12 years and how he just recently jumped out on his own. So this one is great for anyone. Small business owner, who's an attorney or who has a W-2. And if you're thinking about making that leap to entrepreneurship, this is a very good episode for you. We touch on how there's no single recipe for success. And also, how is everyone has their own path and a lot about relationships versus transactions and a lot about quality over quantity, and we do touch on The mental health aspect of things and how you know, it's okay to get, get therapy and get counseling. And you know how it's a really I think Brian's a very grounded person and it was really refreshing to talk to him and you're going to love this episode investors. Have you ever experienced challenging communication or the headache of tracking taxes and insurance me? Eat by Phi a Loan Servicing Company. Founded by investors for investors with an expert team and best-in-class vendors by Phi will partner with you to service your loan from start to exit, visit by Phi, L s.com to see how you can get started today. That's bi fil s.com Welcome to the form adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur? Then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you in paxville stories of real people who have overcome painful human adversity, to create a life of abundance. You are not alone in your struggle, join us, and you will experience the power of true stories and gain practical Knowledge, from Founders, who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage you through your health relationship and financial challenges, so you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life, you are destined to live turn your adversity into abundance. Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity to abundance podcast. I am thrilled today to have with us. Brian Gallagher. I forgot to say I am Jamie Bateman your host. Brian. How are you doing today? Doing good. Brian is an attorney. Who are we have worked with Brian for several years now? And he's a rockstar attorney and just branched out on his own, which we're going to talk about. So Brian for The Listener out there, give us a snapshot of who you are today and what you're up to today. What? Why should we Listen to you?

Speaker 1

03:47

 But that's your choice. If you want to, if you want to listen to what I have to say, I try not to talk too much. So about five weeks ago or so. I left my Law Firm, I was a partner at an about a 30 tourney, a 30 attorney firm in Annapolis. I have been there for about 12 years and decided to go out. Out on my own, we can get into some of the reasons about that as we go along. But yeah, I branched out on my own set up, shop solo practitioner right now, that will probably change in the next couple of months. As I, hopefully I will probably hire somebody in the coming months, so she had to help me out but the, the majority Of my work centers around real estate. I would say probably 50 percent of my work maybe a little bit more revolves around the note industry, which I kind of just unexpectedly fell into is one thing I learned with lawyers, it's incredibly difficult to say I want to be this type of lawyer and then go and try and find those specific clients. What I found And is it kind of finds you so Val?

Speaker 2

05:19

 So, yeah, I am sorry that's a really interesting point. I mean, well, maybe touch on this later, but I do end up talking a decent amount of one of the patterns are lessons. I have learned through doing this, this all these interviews is, you know, Finding success has a lot to do with serving others and understanding what the where the opportunity lies. So it's not just focused on, hey, what is Brian? Elgar want to do you know? Yeah you might have you obviously wanted to be an attorney. But what type of law? Well, it's actually you're more focused on where the need is and kind of looking outside yourself. But it's a little bit, you know, too philosophical.

Speaker 1

06:02

 For this earlier. Now I don't think it would all. I mean it's funny. So, you know, we can get into my life before I started working at my firm. But you know, they got out of the military started working at The Firm. Doing, you know, working for, you know, a guy who would become my mentor and.

Speaker 2

06:22

 I was doing some real estate.

Speaker 1

06:23

 Litigation for him. And I always knew that in order to control your own destiny, as an attorney, you really needed to have a book of business and how to, how do you create a book of business? There's a million. Yeah, I have read so many books and looked at so many podcasts and there's no real specific recipe for Success every Type of attorney has a different path to gaining their book of business and I really equate, I equate it to dating. I am in terms of trying to develop my book of business. When I first got into private practice, I was going to a million different, networking events for everything under the Sun from, you know, religious Related Group to, you know, a chamber of commerce type thing. To something else. And it was you kind of felt like you were just throwing darts blinds and then things started to narrow a little bit and I realized well I like real estate. I am a real estate investor myself and you know I am starting to get a couple of cases in this window and then I really kind of focused my networking efforts and just kind of drop the throttle on that, and I was lucky enough that it kind of worked out. That's awesome. Yeah, well I can vouch for your services. It's been fantastic working with you over the last five, six years, whatever. It's been, so yeah. But let us jump back into your back story. You mentioned your military service. Tell us a little bit about that and I think you ended up in a rack. So tell it. Give us a little more context about that. Yeah, yeah. So I got out of law school. Got a judge or a got a job clerking for a judge so it with lawyers they're called judicial clerkships you do them for a year. So you apply to all the different individual judges and hope you get one. I was lucky enough to get a Judicial clerkship. So got out of law school doing my judicial clerkship and I looked around and all my buddies were starting to get married. They were starting to move in with girlfriends and I just kind of wasn't there yet and I realized this wasn't seriously dating anybody and I realized this is my opportunity to go do something different. I am probably never going to have this opportunity again. I would always it been always a thing in my head of maybe I wanted to serve in some capacity and I her Naval Academy was recruiting me for baseball until they found out that I was severely colorblind and interesting, and I am as well. Yeah, all of a sudden, it was like, maybe you're not that good at baseball? That we're going to try to push that one through. All right? And, so I kind of went full bore and decided I wanted to try to do the Jag route and be a military attorney. So looked at all the different branches, the Navy and the Marine Corps. They did their recruiting a little bit different. They wanted to catch you while you were still in law school, the Army and the Air Force Academy or the Air Force didn't necessarily have those kind of structures. So I applied to both Army, calls me up and says great, you're accepted your first Duty assignment would be Fort Campbell Kentucky. Okay. Shortly thereafter, the Air Force calls and says hey you're accepted your Force. First station would be Hurlburt Field which is literally on the beach in Florida. So I think one thing that's really hard decision, I sure. I went.

Speaker 2

10:31

 To the beach. Sure, who wouldn't? Yeah, and how old are you at this point?

Speaker 1

10:37

 I am 25. Gotcha. Wait, yes, I am turning 26, yeah, got it. So went down to Florida. It was a great experience. I mean, I got my first, I get to my station and my boss walks in and you know, and says great to have you. Here's your first case goes to trial in about a month and it was an Airman that was accused of raping two women. Wow. And that was a very satisfying experience, you know, you're representing the Air Force. You know, I am a prosecutor in the Air Force, but, you know, helping these two young women feel like there was a sense of justice served. We were lucky enough to get a conviction was really satisfying experience.

Speaker 2

11:28

 Well, absolutely. And I mean that's pretty you know for being in your mid-20s. That's you know it's pretty important work there. That's yeah. Yeah. So I was I was doing that, you know, just I was Prosecuting cases and it in down in Florida, it was kind of what you would expect for a base. That's on the beach. You know, it's a lot of just kind of party crimes, you know, party drugs, you know, there's different, a legate, you know, different sexual assault, allegations things like that, and then I get a call. I hadn't been down there that long. Maybe a year, which for assignment turns isn't, isn't that long and I get a call from our assignment office in DC, and they said, Kappa Gallagher. Are you married, or do you have any kids? Now, that's a weird question now, we're headed. Are you married? No, okay, well, we're going to PCS you out of cycle. Up to Missouri to fill a deployment Billet. Wow, what? How, what, what? Where, and Missouri Warrensburg. It was Whiteman, Air.

Speaker 1

12:41

 Force. Space. They fly the be to out of there. Okay. I mean God little middle of nowhere Missouri. Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2

12:48

 There's I am trying not to chime in too much because there's so much I can relate to on a personal level. But yeah, I first of all, you decided to do your military service before you got married. So that was pretty smart. I did it the other way around this before. I got married not to be good choices. Yeah, I ended up missing my first three wedding anniversaries, which because of the military so that in hindsight wasn't so smart, but you give up a lot of control. Once you join the military, but as you, as you as we just saw with the move to Missouri. And I also spent some time at Fort Leonard Wood, which were they call for lost in the woods? Yes. Also in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, exactly. So okay. So what's that? Then what happens, what's that tour look like so?

Speaker 1

13:41

 Who's funny? I still remember that phone call. It's bizarre. I mean, I remember where I was sitting, I remember like, everything about that phone call from my Simon office, because in my mind I was I had this thought that, if I kill it, you know, my first Duty assignment, I am going to work my tail off, and they're going to give me, you know, good follow on assignment. And I remember asking his time in office, just like, did I do something wrong? Am I never might not, you know, No, and no. No. Of course this sides assignment also like, no. Actually, it's quite the opposite. You know, we really need somebody to blah, blah. Okay. I mean, it's not like your choice. It's just kind of. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, yeah. And in hindsight, I think you were making the mistake of applying logic to these that. Yeah, well, we will leave that alone. But yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's also like, it's more of like an Oracle. It's a more of a philosophical thought process two of you know it's hard to look back, and we can get into more of the stuff in a second. It's hard to look back and say oh I regret that okay well I regret that you know it's hard to have those regrets if yeah. Where you are now you're good with because you say wouldn't you know all those things would have taken you somewhere else. That wasn't so great. Absolutely. I was for sure reading something and I It's and I know I am going to badly misquote this? So just kind of bear with me and it's interesting. There's like this Chinese kind of proverb or Chinese kind of I don't even know what you call it, but there's, you know, this Chinese farmer, and he you know, he has these horses and the horses the his prized horse gets out and you know, runs away. And the Neighbors come up in their like oh my gosh. That's so terrible. You know we're sorry. You know it's terrible that your horse ran away, and he was like me you know so couple days later his prized horse comes back and you know brings back actually for other horses. So now he has five horses, and they're like oh that's amazing. You're so lucky. You know you have all these horses, and he's like maybe and the next day his son is writing one of the horses and falls off and breaks his leg and there. I like, oh my gosh, that's terrible that you know, your son broke his leg and the farmers. Like maybe the next day that the, you know, the government comes by the conscription service and is constructing all the young men to go fight in the war, and they can't take his son because he's got a broken leg. And again, they say you're so lucky, and he's like maybe, so he's in the world story is who's to say what? But sure it's all about your perspective and maybe maintaining a little bit of a stoic you know, approach to things is a good way to go. But yeah that's awesome. I love that story.

Speaker 2

16:56

 Okay, so you're in Missouri and then what happens? So yeah, so they send me up.

Speaker 1

17:04

 There, you know, and it's one of those I mean you have deployed so you understand it, like the pre-deployment training cycle is just your everywhere, everywhere, all the time, all at once. You know, you're here, you're there and it's so, you know, go through, go through that and then you get shipped off to Iraq. And it was actually funny. The trip over there. I tell the story all the time. It's hilarious. So, You know, with Jags. It's not like we're deploying as part of like, you know, the sixth company or six Battalions, where everybody in mass is going together. It's kind of like, we got to find a spot for you, to get you over there somehow. And, so I was flying in a cargo plane from Kansas to England and then from England down to Harder and then a jumper from Qatar into Iraq, Baghdad. And I remember talking to somebody, and they're like bring a blanket. Like when you talk about, I am like, I am a grown man. I am not bringing a blanket plane, and they're like, no, you know, bring your issue blanket. You were you remember those like? Yeah, yeah, they absolutely. There's will greenish-brown blankets. Yep. So I who am I to say so meself? Me to do something. If there's anything you learn in the military, it's like sure. Somebody tells you something even doesn't make sense, you take the advice. Absolutely, I bring the blanket. Well, I didn't know it, but the cargo planes they're not temperature regulated. So you're flying it. What do you find? What do you fly at 10,000 feet? Something like that. Sure 10:12. I don't know. Yeah, something like that. I don't know either. It's hi-yah. And you know, I will never forget like I had my if we're in jump seats. So it's not like their seats in the People are literally like sleeping on pallets, you know, when you're the jump seats alongside of the fuselage so you're kind of hunched over like this. Yeah. And there's this poor girl. I remember a young woman, you know, a younger enlisted, who didn't get the memo and not just blanket. Literally chattered for like 10 hours of just violently shook for 10 hours. She was so cold. Yeah, this is a not the, it's a little different from what most people think. When I think of the, you know, the attorney who makes all this money. And I am thinking you travel a little bit better now. Hopefully. But well with three kids, I don't travel that much. That's fair. Alright, so you get to Qatar and then you get into country. Good? Yeah. They take you take the jumper over into Baghdad which was I mean if you like roller coasters, it's green because You know, this is, this was right before the surge. Yeah, so it wasn't. What was that is 90? Well, there was.

Speaker 2

20:12

 One in the 2006.

Speaker 1

20:14

 That was that one. Okay. Guy whose like, 2000, I want to say nine.

Speaker 2

20:18

 Right. Okay, might have been right? Yeah.

Speaker 1

20:21

 Something like that. I was there from 2005 to 2006, and they were really ramping up and the summer of 2006. And we were lucky to not get extended another Other three months over Indian rupee, so, but yeah. Anyway, 2009, they definitely. Yeah, you're probably right 2009, there's something like that. Ah, and they, you know, so you're flying, you know, a regular, you know, regular and but because of, you know, there's there're mortars and yeah, RPGs everything. So they tried a high height and then at the very end it's just like a straight, like a home. Yeah. I have been there, done that. Yeah. You're it's fun. Yes, absolutely. So get over there, and I was living and working in the so there's two main prisons. There were two main prisons. In fact in Iraq there was the one down south and Basra which was huge in it. I think at the height it houses like 25,000 detainees. And then there was the smaller one in Baghdad on. Victory is called can't Cropper and it howls, maybe 5025 to 5,000. Okay? And so, we lived and worked to their, and my job. When I was, there was, I was in shape charge of the detainee review process. So, you know, every by the Geneva conventions, every I can't remember whose, I think it's six months, every six months. If you're detaining somebody, they have to have a means by which to, you know, Protest their detention every six months, they come before the board of officers that are reviewing their Intel sheets. Their, you know, their capture sheets, you know, and making a determination of whether they continue to pose a threat or whether they should be released. Hmm. And it was, you know, it was everybody from the 20-year-old kid who took $10 to be a lookout for something that he didn't even know what he was being a lookout for two. You know, Bad Dudes. And that was an awesome experience. It was just it was such a cool experience. Interesting. Yeah, so I am just not my have to talk to you later about how the because I was attached at we were actually working with the Iraqis directly, you know. And so they were in charge, you know? Supposedly but they were going around all these people up and just.

Speaker 2

23:03

 If bring them back and have detainees that, you know, I imagine it was a little less, not as many strings attached, as far as the process went there for them for compared to what you're dealing with because you're doing with the u.s. Are you know are the ones rounding everyone up, right?

Speaker 1

23:21

 Yeah. So I think there was, there was a filtering process. So, you know if you were probably out in the field with a unit, you know, and you probably had a forward operating Base that you guys were wearing.

Speaker 2

23:34

 A faded to Camp victory at one point. But yeah, we were closer to the Iranian border pretty far out there. Yeah. So you.

Speaker 1

23:42

 Guys would round up some people there. Be a filtering process for you guys there. You know, you take you out. Yeah. And guys would come in and look at them and say listen yeah these four or nothing, you know where to go and then D6 or something, and then they would be sent either Falls or Oregon or act makes sense. That.

Speaker 2

24:02

 Good. So you said that was an awesome experience. Why do you say that?

Speaker 1

24:09

 It was You know, it's I when I deployed by no means, will I ever compare myself to a guy, you know, hoping a rucksack, you know, and, you know, out in the field, you know, with Kevlar and a trigger that was, you know, I am not that tough, you know, I didn't have that experience. I will never try to pretend like I did, but it was, it was awesome being part of A 24/7 operation that you felt was important. Sure. And I mean, you worked every single day, the week you worked your in. You know, you went back to your Hooch to sleep and then you got up and you ain't got breakfast and you went back to doing what you were doing its wrong and you know working. So they will officer that would sit on the detainee review board. It was guys from the field coming in and it was Like a taken me for them, so they would come in for a week or two and sit on these boards and it would be an opportunity for them to take a breath. So they would come in from the field, they would get couch with a hot shower and hot meals, and they could just have a week or two of going and sitting on a board. Sure. So it's.

Speaker 2

25:37

 Unofficial are in our little bit. I mean yes or Tough guy. Yeah, wewe, actually. That's why we went to Camp victory. Was to take a little bit of a break sometimes. Yeah. So interesting know I do. And what I am hearing is, it's, you know, you're being your, you have purpose, right? And you're plugged into a mission, that's bigger than Brian Gallagher. Right? Yeah. So and I think that's critical for all kinds of things, success and happiness. And so, So and so, how long were you in Iraq for? It was only six months.

Speaker 1

26:16

 Of course, is lucky in that their deployments were only six month deployment. Yeah.

Speaker 2

26:22

 Yeah. Mine was 12 but it's and I said that my, our mobilization was worse than the deployment. But next week, we're going to interview me and I will talk more about.

Speaker 1

26:32

 That. So, tell us about. Excuse me, how things went when you got home? All they went. It was a little rough when I got home and you know, listen, you know by no means am I ever going to am I trying to say that? It was any sort of like PTSD or anything like that. I didn't have those experiences, you know, I am not. But it just, it was a little bit rough. I remember, I got back and I tested positive for having been exposed to TB. Do you remember getting No? Was it the?

Speaker 2

27:14

 I am trying. I am getting.

Speaker 1

27:15

 My Fascination. Yeah, I forget. Yeah. Smallpox was the, was the vaccination that was the were cast. Sure. Yeah. No. So, this was. Yeah, so I get back and I remember, you know, when you get back stateside, you go through all this like testing. Yeah. And I remember like I felt fine. I was fine and you're doing this testing and you're not really paying attention anything. And then all of a sudden like this junior enlisted guy like comes and grabs. As me and starts walking me around places. I am like, what's going on and your account today, what's that? You are a captain at this? Yeah, this point got ya? Yeah. And he's not really saying anything because, you know, I know he's not, you know, she's not allowed to say anything, but I am like, what's going on. He's like, they look somebody explain to you sir Somebody explain to you. So, you know, turns out that I had been exposed to tuberculosis and Yeah, we kind of eradicated that in the u.s. Sure. What I mean I was living and working in a third-world prison. Yeah, no are surely. Yeah. So apparently I been exposed to TB. And so for nine months, you have to take this like heavy-duty medicine that, you know, it wrecks hell on your liver. You have to go. You have to go in to get your liver checks for, you know, every month you can't drink on it, because it's so hard on you. And you know, I do it made me feel weird and so, you know, and then you know, I am getting back to my base. My friends had basically replaced me on deployment, so I am going back to this base and the middle of nowhere. I am on this medicine that it's kind of gnarly of my okay, am I not okay sure. And you know now I started having like a little bit of like a heart prop like a I don't you just like I was having a hard time getting Blood pressure under control, and it was just like a little bit of a gnarly time. You know, part of me felt like I was getting older that all my friends are getting married. Yeah. No. I knew I didn't want to make a career in the military and then I started feel like, oh my gosh it was this a mistake, you know, all my friends are starting, you know, their own partnership tracks at law firms. You know. I am going to be so behind everybody. You know here I am, stuck in the middle of nowhere. Missouri and I you know.

Speaker 2

29:44

 Yes. Um yeah. I mean that's there's a lot. There's a lot there. That's I can totally see why. That would be you know, you might easily fall into a bit of a downward mental spiral, you know. And again, and we have people on the show and it's inevitable you get into comparison. Well you had it worse than I did. And that's I think there's I think it's okay on some level to do that because then it's like that gives you know people had it worse than you did, right? And But that doesn't mean that was a fun time for you. You know that doesn't negate what you were going through at all. So yeah, I mean sounds like so it was that kind of dark period. Was that the nine months you mentioned or how long before? Yeah, so, yeah. So it's yeah, it was I actually started and so, you know, I knew I wasn't depressed because I knew it was going to get better. So that's why it was just You know, I had an Outlook that this is all temporary. It's all going to get better. And I remember it was, you know, in the military, there's this stigma with mental health and you know, there's this fear that if you feel like you need to talk to somebody, all of a sudden that's going to be a pot, you know, Scarlet Letter on your record and all of a sudden now you're not going to be able to, you know, get certain assignments or whatever, certainly back then I guess anything's changed a little bit some but yeah. No, absolutely. And I worked for, you know, DOD for years afterwards and even as a civilian getting a clearance and things it used to be you know if you saw a counselor was like, whoa this it is this person even trustworthy to have access to classified information, you know. Now it's like you should probably go see a counselor. So what and that's actually one of the things that helped me out The best is I actually started paying out of my own pocket even though we had the best health insurance in the world. Technically you know I started I was paying out-of-pocket to go see some guy off base, okay? And that's and again, this was what you, what year was this is just oh, nine ish. Yeah. So you know, now people talk about it a lot more but you know, that was I think but then that was, you know, 14 years ago, Wasn't really quite as accepted? I would say, oh, believe nobody knew I did it. I did it, you know, let alone, you know, the guys in the office or all right? Yeah. No. I was going, you know, way off base, you know, way far away from base to sharing, and he was a grandfatherly type guy and it was it just kind of centered me a little bit sure. Now, I mean, and it again, I keep trying in with my own kid. It's here. But I spoke on another episode about how my wife and I actually fairly recently did some marital counseling, and he was kind of grandfather type guy that we spoke with and worked with. And yeah, that's a great way to put it. It just kind of centered us and it wasn't like we had some crazy problem we had to fix but it's I see it like coaching, you know? There's no I mean why not? The mind, my buddy gave the best analysis and also say, my wife and I in the past and have gone counseling and best analogy is my buddy, gave it years, you don't need to be 400 pounds to benefit from a personal trainer that's so true. Yeah, I see. No, that's a great point. I see people and like Twitter and you know, people who are really in shape, they get asked well you don't, they say, people say you don't need to go to the gym. You're in shape, it's like That's why I am in shape gone. Yeah. Jim you know so yeah that's why I am doing well is because I am seeing I am working with a personal trainer. I am working with a therapist.

Speaker 1

33:51

 yeah I am not.

Speaker 2

33:53

 Necessarily speaking for myself just that's why not I mean you know the best of the best have coaches. So no I appreciate you sharing that about 2009 and also later with your wife. I mean that's its actually something I want to focus more in later episodes of, you know, as far as Entrepreneurship and mental health. Because I think it's, you know, more and a more pressing issue that we need to address. So walk us through Brian. Go ahead, no site.

Speaker 1

34:24

 Knows. Good.

Speaker 2

34:26

 Yeah, I mean it walks us through from, you know, from kind of that 2009 up through today. And then we will talk about how your branched out on your own, your own professionally. So what I know there's a lot to cover their but kind of you can kind of summarize the last you know 14 years. Yeah. Maybe more on the professional side would be good. Yeah. No so professionally got out of the military. It's, you know, this more than anybody it is. It is a.

Speaker 1

34:55

 Leap of faith getting out of the military. Sure. Most jobs that you have, you don't leave your current job until you have a new job lined up. Yeah, absolutely. And generally speaking in the military especially if you're going from military to private sector right? You have to give. Is it 90 days that you have to give?

Speaker 2

35:18

 Terminal your notice? I think, I think that's right. Sounds right? Yeah.

Speaker 1

35:22

 I think it's 92 in the military if you have 80 Days of saying, listen in 90 days, I will separate. And I am not gonna have a paycheck anymore. Yeah. And so, you have 90 days to go get it a new job and that even shrinks more. Because generally speaking, most places, don't need somebody until they need somebody sure. So it compresses to it, turns out you end up having maybe 30 days to find a new job before you don't have a paycheck.

Speaker 2

35:53

 Anymore here. And as an Officer your you're resigning, your commission right and less you. Yeah, yeah. So that's its a big deal. It's a big decision to make. Yeah. And it's not an easy process. So, so, how did that process go for you?

Speaker 1

36:10

 I mean, thank God. It went pretty well, you know, I Put my notice and, and, you know, I am putting my resume out applying to a bunch of different places the first month or two, not really getting any bites because again, you know, part of it is listened. I yeah, I can't start work until such and such date the last, you know, six weeks. It started to pick up and I started getting a lot of interviews and get none of this. None of this was through friends or through family contacts. It was all Just seeing an ad somewhere and putting it submitting an application using a submitting, my resume and got a couple. You know, I remember, one particular week had a couple of interviews had one that I really liked and then the next day, a place offered me. I called back the place that I liked and I said, hey, it just got an offer but I really I wanted to talk to you guys before I accepted excite. I will I enjoyed my interview with you guys and what you have to offer. He said, give me an hour, let me put together a package calls me back. He's like, okay, here's what we would like to offer you. And it was actually less than the other firm. But I took it because I felt like it was a better fit for me and maybe offer better opportunity for long-term success. Gotcha. That's it. Which isn't easy to do, you know, especially, you know, I am sure you saved up a little bit from your deployment or whatever, but you spend it all in counseling. No, I am kidding. But now it's, I mean, it's easy for you to look, you know, for us to say, oh, well yeah that makes sense. You turn down the higher offer could for in but it's like that. Yeah, that's a leap of faith as well. So I just had a better feeling about Yeah, the guy in the guy I interviewed with was the guy I would be working for, and he's a guy that would become my mentor and a big part of my life. I mean I actually had even though I left the firm, you know, he's still there he and I had a beer last night. Yeah. I met each other for a beer, just was to stay in touch. Sure. But in this is something else that I am interested in chatting with you about because I think I would love to hear your take. So obviously, I elected not to try to negotiate my salary, you know, when I called back the firm that I wouldn't with, I didn't say, hey, they're offering me this. Can you beat it? I just said, hey, they offered me, you know, I wanted to talk to you guys before and when they offered me what they offered me, I didn't, I didn't say, I didn't try to negotiate that salary. Sure. And I don't think back then. So this is 2011. I don't think back then it was as big of a thing to try to negotiate a salary. Sure. Yeah, I don't think so, but having been on the hiring end up hiring people, I don't it always ends up rubbing me the wrong way. We don't like it. Sheet your salary. Yeah.

Speaker 2

39:35

 Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a way to do it as, you know, as the applicant I think nowadays, it's kind of expected. There's going to be some negotiation, but I hear you. And I have been in that position where it's like, yeah, it does. I don't, I have been in the hiring position where I don't like it as well. But yeah, I love this. I mean listen this is assuming all things being equal that they're offering you equal pay for equal work, and they're not trying to take advantage of you, and I am not speaking to any of those situations. Sure. But you know, it's always interesting when, you know, somebody is really tough negotiating, their salary and does it change? What the expectations are of them when they start working for you sure? Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, that's it. That's an episode in and of itself. So it's so you work there for what 14 years. He said, or 10 years, 12 years.

Speaker 1

40:40

 12 years, got it. And you.

Speaker 2

40:43

 Kind of fell into the real estate and mortgage note work. What other kind of work did you, did you do there?

Speaker 1

40:49

 So, I cut my teeth doing Title Insurance litigation so when people make claims against their Title Insurance, you know, our Firm was retained to represent their interests. And then I remember, I can't remember how it happened, but I remember the first foreclosure I ever did, was on a two million dollar commercial property in Baltimore, and we were foreclosing on the disbarred. King of foreclosures. So, he was, we were, we were foreclosing on the building. That used to house a foreclosure attorneys huge crafts. That wasn't able to practice anymore. Wow, those Fasteners. So it was weird. Yeah.

Speaker 2

41:41

 That's so your first case in the military was a big one and then your first foreclosure case was. Yeah. Yeah. And so I and how did that case? Go and went.

Speaker 1

41:54

 Great. We I mean it went smooth and I mean is You know, it was one of those things where they called me up and asked me if I can do it, and I have never done it before but I researched it. And I thought I can do this. And you know, even though, you know, I probably worked five times what I actually build the client because I wanted to make sure that I was doing it right and, you know, recently researched everything to the Help. And, you know, I, I knew I was stretching myself, but it down dog, that it worked. And yeah, well, I think that's, that's, that's a critical piece to, you know, growth in general. Right. He's finding that you got to get uncomfortable and I know our mutual friend, Chris 70, his has pushed you to be uncomfortable sometimes, and in some ways right in both me as well. Don't get me wrong, he's pushed me.

Speaker 2

42:59

 As well. But you know you got to find that line between, you know, on one side. It's you got to be uncomfortable, push your boundaries, learn new things, get a little bit scared, but obviously not throw caution to the wind. And, yeah. So it's such a fine line of I don't want to, it's not faking it till you make it. It's not faking it. Yeah, put it work, right? You're putting in the work. It's not faking it, but it is. Yeah. And your you didn't I presume you didn't say, oh no, I have done a hundred of these cases before you know, because that's just not true. Yeah. And so you're not lying, we just have confidence that you can figure it out or if you reach a point where you don't know the answer, then you have resources to go to find those answers. At least that's my view on it. Yeah no it worked out well and it just kind of You know, it just kind of started to steam roll from there. Yeah. So as we, as we start to move toward the end here because I do have some rapid fire questions after this, this next topic, what, you know, talk to us a little bit about what, you know why you decided to leave and go out on your own. You know, that's not a, not an easy thing. That also is it and obviously, you're, you're still on good terms with your prior employer. So it sounds like it wasn't all bad? They're not like you were running away from something necessarily, but when did the thought start creeping in your mind and how did that process? Go mentally before you were before you really decided to jump?

Speaker 1

44:42

 So I mean it So the reason I ended up leaving is kind of tale as old as time when it comes to two law firms. It's you know you don't necessarily agree with maybe one of the A certain way things are done, and I am talking about a pure business thing. They're very, you know, I have nothing but good things to say about the firm they gave me my opportunity, they allowed me to spread my wings and you know and like I said, my mentors still there and you know, we refer cases back and forth to each other but you know, there was an aspect to it that I just had a hard time going along with and, you know, there was a Consult my I spoke to, and I was talking to her about you know, maybe I need to start looking at it a different firm, you know. I just don't think they're going to change this one management you know position that they have on something and it's like Brian just you just need to take the jump and you need to start your own firm. She goes if it's not this at this firm you're going to go to another firm and it's going to be something at that firm. And she goes I think you know haven't gotten to know your personality a little bit. Looks like I think you should seriously think about starting your own shop. Let me ask you. This was this a just because you know, we talked about coaching and finding a coach and a mentor and a counselor, this was a paid consultant. Was this a formal relationship or more of a Rosy? More informal relationship? Yeah, it's a little. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, no. This is Informal relationship. Got it that I kind of developed and it was through, you know, staying in touch with people. She was somebody that had done, you know, something and I just I thought she had value to add pong. And, so I stayed in touch with her and you know, we would have some conversations about the firm and, you know, the problems that I was having you why I was having these sleepless nights and, you know, and we got to this place, or she's like, you know, telling her what my numbers are. And she's like, I think you can do it. I think you can do it and, you know, with my personality once I decided. Yeah, that's what I want to do. I mean, it was, you know, it's like I would hope minders on and that's you know, what was going to happen. Sure. That's and it was, you know, it's funny. I was having this conversation with somebody. D and I am lucky enough. I really enjoyed the clients I work with, and I am actually I don't know whether I should say this, I am actually really quick to tell somebody that I don't want to work with them. Well you have I am still working with you, so I guess I made it. No, you know, it's, you know, it's Life's Too Short in the work that we all do is wait too hard, too. To, you know, to put up with things that aren't right. And, so I have always been I have been kind of quick to say, listen I am not sure this relationship is good for you or me. Maybe it's best for us to part ways and I mean, that's a hard thing to do. Tell ya, I don't want to take your money.

Speaker 2

48:20

 Anymore. Well, especially if you're starting your own business, right? And I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1

48:24

 So but it's just it's so much better. When, and I am I feel good about this that I feel like I have I enjoy the relationships that I have with my.

Speaker 2

48:37

 Clients. Yeah, you.

Speaker 1

48:39

 Know, it's and when you know, there's a problem when you see the number on your, on your phone and you roll your eyes and you go, oh God, yeah. Or is it better that you see the number on the phone and you grab it, you go? What's going on? What's up, what can I help you with? Yeah, it's I mean, some attorneys, we have dealt with, you know, are just very transactional on it's that's.

Speaker 2

49:05

 But it's not really a relationship thing. So yeah, I can tell the list are out there that working with Brian if he lets you work with him. It's a, it's a long term, you know if there's not nickel-and-diming going on, so big picture, you know, it's not all about this, this one deal necessarily so. But at how long did it take you from that, you know, I guess from that conversation or you know what was that process? Was it six months? We're or six days I have been having these I call them the sleepless nights. I ate something was you know there's this issue that's wrong. I am having I am struggling with it months. I am struggling with it. We had a final Partners meeting where it kind of the lines were drawn in the sand and then that's a Friday. And then on Monday, I came in, I said, hey guys, I am leaving and the managing partner was a guy by the name of Steve oberg awesome. And, you know, you just amaze with. Yeah. I get it, man. You know, wish you the best? Yeah, I wrote him a letter afterwards. Just thanking him for his.

Speaker 1

50:18

 Much of a gentleman. He was you know afterwards, and he and I have talked since it was really hard telling my mentor and frankly he's what kept me at the firm way, way longer than I ever would have stayed. Just because I felt so much loyalty to him and just because of everything he's done for me and my family over the years, but he ended up get he get, he got it. You know, he had nobody, he wasn't mean to me or anything like that and I would never have expected that out. He and I have stayed in touch every other week we get a beer and you know so and then I left the firm like about a month later. So during that month I was reaching out to my clients and tell him. Listen you have a choice, you know, is the client, you can stay with the firm. You can come with me or you can go get another attorney entirely. And now I was really, really lucky in that every client that I hoped would come with me, came with me. And, so I have been about five weeks now, six weeks. Now that I have and I have been doing it. And yeah, it's drinking through.

Speaker 2

51:29

 A firehose. It's going to say since. And now, you know what's as we again, as we wrap up here, start to what's been the biggest or one of the biggest surprises are challenges, you know, that you didn't necessarily see coming from the business standpoint not from you know the attorney standpoint but just something you would do. Don't have to deal with before. And now you.

Speaker 1

51:50

 Do. I wouldn't say. I would like to think that I was pretty prepared for it all. And you term of, I kind of knew what I was biting off. I knew that all of a sudden I wasn't going to have you know, three paralegals and secretaries that I could just say, go do whatever. I knew I was going to have to do that. At least from the beginning. Sure. Um Q. I was always the biggest thing that what's that? I said, you have kids they can do it. Yeah, I am kidding. I am kidding. The biggest thing that I was worried about was running The Ledger and the accounting. That was my biggest concern because I didn't have much involvement without of my old firm, but I mean a software just makes it so easy. Mmm. And as long as you're diligent about doing things in real time, it's not a.

Speaker 2

52:47

 Big deal. Yeah, absolutely. Now that makes sense. Yeah, curious to see how what you have to say in a year from now from the business standpoint. But you know what.

Speaker 1

52:59

 You know to happen is that I had my dad's working for me. Oh really. Yes. What's the dad was an attorney? He didn't, he worked for the doj and the Library of Congress. He wasn't like a practicing attorney, and he's been retired for like eight years, and he said, you know, so many so much golf I can play. I am kind of getting tired, he say, let me know if they want help. So, you know, my dad's my dad, it's, you know, a law clerk working with me and it's been really cool. That's awesome.

Speaker 2

53:29

 So cool. Yeah, so you are you from the business standpoint? Are you like I don't say you obviously, you don't want to turn down work, but are you focused on marketing and growth? Or is it kind of like you have your book of business and your kind of good for now?

Speaker 1

53:46

 That's a great question. I would say that. It's actually been this way. I don't think I have done a marketing or networking event for a year or two before I had kids I was at a networking event, three nights a week, every single week at least three nights a week, I was hoping it to some sort of networking event, all of my referrals. Now, 100% of my referrals now are from clients so it's important now. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like the note Industries is very insular. It is very small, it's small. And if you do a good job for a couple people, you know, it, you know, it didn't help. So what does your typical client look like? I mean, you have talked about the real estate investor in the mortgage note investor. But I know you have done other kind of more broad contract work and that type thing. What's your typical client look like as far as honestly? It's, and I like it this way, the diversity of it, you know, I have clients that are multinational companies. You know, for instance, I represent a bunch of malls doing all their premises liability work and then I have, you know, clients that you know, they're trying to buy a house and the deal went sideways, and they need me to step in and help them bring it to the finish line. And then I have everything in between that, you know, when the note industry I have people buying their first note that need a ton of hand-holding. And then I have people like you and Chris and you know, No funds that you know, they don't need me to explain anything. Yeah, that's cool now then and I imagine that produces a lot of variety for you on a day-to-day basis. It does. Got it, awesome. All right, so I do have some rapid fire questions, you ready? Yeah. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you, Ryan? That. Oh man, this is, this is a, that's a really good question. Um.

Speaker 2

56:16

 I like me might not be as you might not worry if this.

Speaker 1

56:19

 You might not believe this, but I don't talk a lot actually, and I am way more, I am kind of pretend extrovert. I have realized that in the business world, you can't really be a pure introvert. You have to, at least pretend to some degree to be, you know, open and gregarious. Yeah. Yeah, I can relate. I am kind of introvert. You know what's I like something like this? I really enjoy this. This is great, but to be honest with you I am going to need to go be by myself and you know for the next hour and kind of like recuperate. I am with you.

Speaker 2

56:58

 Totally get it. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self some advice, what would that be? Worry about yourself, okay? So don't worry about what other people think of you or.

Speaker 1

57:13

 What's not just you know when I was 18 I was more avocados entirely focused on football and where am I going to go play football in college and you know, I kind of wish that I would just taken that out of the equation and pick the best school for me as a person. So actually got.

Speaker 2

57:35

 It if you could Have coffee with any historical figure. Who would it be?

Speaker 1

57:43

 Or beer. Yeah. Okay, okay, nice. I do. I am a little bit obsessed with the.

Speaker 2

57:51

 Kennedys. There you go. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it?

Speaker 1

58:02

 Breathe, that's real. I you know everybody thinks about what they would do, if they hit the lottery I don't think I would do anything for a couple months is just.

Speaker 2

58:16

 Actually want one. Somebody, I just interviewed the episode will be out by the time. This one comes out, but he said Financial abundance for him, has allowed margin and that's what he just like, just that space, you know, it's So not necessarily like greed or having to, you know, invest in all these crazy things, it's just that piece of Mind, really?

Speaker 1

58:40

 Yeah, I think that's what I mean by like, breathe is just Relax for a.

Speaker 2

58:48

 Minute. It's like to be I don't want to.

Speaker 1

58:51

 Go by this or by that just, yeah.

Speaker 2

58:54

 Sure. So, back to your business, what's one challenge that you're facing right now in your business? Um.

Speaker 1

59:03

 When to hire do I want to hire do, I want to start supervising again or do I just want to Take some time work with the clients that I currently have and you know figure out what I want to do in a couple of months.

Speaker 2

59:23

 Yeah I wish I could say that questions go away but supervising.

Speaker 1

59:29

 Is hard. It is hard to.

Speaker 2

59:30

 Supervise. It is. Yeah. And it's hard to know when to hire. There's always that tension Let us see if there was one occupation, you could try. That's totally different from what than being an attorney I agent. Oh nice, but you're color blind, right?

Speaker 1

59:50

 Yeah. I mean, I feel like I could be okay. I always wanted to be an FBI.

Speaker 2

59:54

 Agent. So what are you? And I have a lot in common, but I will tell you my story about that later. So, Let us see what else? Brian have we have. We would have we not covered that you'd like to No, this has been fun. This has been cool. I have enjoyed it so far. Listener out there who may be there they have a W-2 job, you know. Maybe they're not necessarily an attorney, but they are thinking about kind of making the leap. Do you have any advice for that person? Kind of what's, you know what to way, how to work through that process. I mean, there's no one size fits all but anyone or two principles you could provide Yeah, I think. I think listen America runs on small business and maybe that's not for everybody but I think you would be doing yourself a service if you approached your job. Trying to position yourself to have the option of starting your own business meaning?

Speaker 1

01:01:12

 Not being entirely reliant on others for.

Speaker 2

01:01:15

 Work. I love it. Yeah, it's awesome. Well Brian Gallagher, I know your website is Brian Gallagher law.com.

Speaker 1

01:01:26

 T, righty.

Speaker 2

01:01:27

 Gallagher. I missed the tea, I sit there now. Apparently there's another.

Speaker 1

01:01:31

 Brian Gallagher laws out there.

Speaker 2

01:01:34

 Brian tee Gallagher, law.com. If I could read, that would be helpful. So Brian, where else can our listeners, how can they reach out to you? Yeah, you can shoot me, an.

Speaker 1

01:01:44

 Email Gallagher at Bryant. T caliber law.com emails? Probably the easiest way you can get there through the website that my lovely wife helped design, nice. She's in marketing and I wasn't going to trust myself with.

Speaker 2

01:02:01

 That.

Speaker 1

01:02:03

 Like I said the website is Brian tee Gallagher law.com and you can get me through there.

Speaker 2

01:02:09

 And what their specific. I know their specific States for foreclosures and things like that. What stage is Super 8? Yes, I do. Do.

Speaker 1

01:02:17

 Foreclosures in Maryland, DC and Virginia. But then, you know, a lot of what I do is just kind of acting as a general counsel for people. And I do that throughout the country.

Speaker 2

01:02:28

 Got it one question. I forgot to ask. What's you have a book that you could recommend anything for entrepreneurs or anyone who wants to be the best version of.

Speaker 1

01:02:37

 Themselves? It's funny. I went a couple of during the pandemic. I went on this kick. There was this book. It was like I think it was like 50 it was like oh real man reading challenge and it was like 30 or 40 books about growth and things like that. Okay? And have to look that up. You know, it's one of the I really like Robin sharma's books, okay? Really, really the monk in the Ferrari or the monk who sold his Ferrari, right? I have heard of it yet. Yeah. That and then the 5 AM his.

Speaker 2

01:03:20

 Some a book about 58 getting up early which is something I do.

Speaker 1

01:03:24

 Now. I really enjoy Robin sharma's books, and they're more kind of Their good for business, but they're more. They're better for like peace of mind. He's actually reformed attorney that became a kind of self-help guy. Cool, awesome, really cool. Oh Brian Gallagher. Thank you so much. I know we ran a little long really. Appreciate your time today and yeah this was really fun so it's absolutely appreciated it. Jamie absolutely certain to The Listener out there. Thank you so much for spending your most valuable resource with us and that is your time. Thanks everyone. Take care.

Speaker 2

01:04:02

 Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us your time. Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us your time. If you like the show, please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners. If you like the show, please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners. One entrepreneur. One entrepreneur. At a time. At a time. We can change the world. We can change the world. See you next time. See you next time.