Jan. 30, 2024
From Military Officer to Mortgage Note Master: One Man's Journey to Entrepreneurial Freedom
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Join me, Jamie Bateman—as a guest on the Passive Income Attorney Podcast--as Iexplore the journey of transitioning from a W-2 employee to a full-time entrepreneur.From military discipline to building businesses in real estate and mortgage noteinves...
Join me, Jamie Bateman—as a guest on the Passive Income Attorney Podcast--as I
explore the journey of transitioning from a W-2 employee to a full-time entrepreneur.
From military discipline to building businesses in real estate and mortgage note
investing, the path to financial freedom is paved with hard work and perseverance. How did I do it? And how might you do it, too? Tune in to find out.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover the transformative power of discipline in sports.
- Explore Jamie’s personal journey and entrepreneurship for inspiration.
- Master the art of transitioning to full-time entrepreneurship.
- Learn the secrets to building multiple streams of income.
- Uncover the potential of note investing as a cash flow strategy.
I think just being afraid to that you have to be perfect. Right. So I
used to be an editor back in the day, and so many things would
just not get done or not get completed within our team, our
organization, because it had to be perfect. - Jamie Bateman
Embracing discipline for triumph
To successfully transition to full-time entrepreneurship, a disciplined approach is crucial.
Lessons from previous experiences such as team sports or services like the military
often instill a level of discipline that can be effectively transferred into entrepreneurial
ventures. This discipline, when applied consistently, fuels entrepreneurship and
elevates one's chances of financial freedom.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
- Check out the From Adversity to Abundance Podcast to hear more inspiring
stories and gain practical knowledge from founders who have turned adversity
into abundance.
- Visit labradorlending.com to learn more about mortgage note investing and
explore opportunities to invest passively in note funds for potential monthly
returns.
- Get a copy of the book From Adversity to Abundance Podcast to dive deeper
into the stories and insights shared on the podcast.
- Consider implementing breath work into your daily routine for improved mental
and physical well-being. It only takes 10 minutes a day and can have a significant
impact.
- Create a vivid vision for your life in the next three to five years and reverse plan
to take actionable steps towards achieving your goals.
Books and Resources
Connect with Seth Bradley:
LINKTREE: https://linktr.ee/sethbradley
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/sethpaulbradley
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/passiveincomeattorney/
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethpaulbradley/
EMAIL: seth@passiveincomeattorney.com
Haven Financial:
https://www.myfinancialhaven.com/jamiebateman/
ATTENTION:
Unlock the secrets to a transformative life with “From Adversity to Abundance: Inspiring stories of Mental, Physical and Financial Transformation”. Buy your copy now and embark on a journey from challenges to triumphs!
AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGTWJY1D?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860
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Connect with Jamie
BOOK: From Adversity to Abundance: Inspiring Stories of Mental, Physical, and Financial Transformation
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-bateman-5359a811/
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/batemanjames
This episode is another one where I was a guest on a fellow podcasters show. My friend Seth Bradley, who has a very popular podcast called the passive income attorney. It had the, I had the privilege of being a guest on his show, and we got a chance to dive in to some personal things about me and my backstory. And, hoping you get I know you'll get something out of it. I'm hoping you get a lot out of it. We talk about team sports. We talk about the military, my military service as an officer. We talk about my service as a civilian at, Fort Mead. I haven't talked about this a lot, but I I worked for fourteen years. For the federal government, the Department of Defense. And then, how I got into real estate and mortgage notes, and then we talk about, why I quit my job. I I share a story on this one about, rupturing my Achilles and how that relates to realizing that I I was done. My w two days were over. I could not, I just couldn't do it anymore. The manly sport of badminton did me in with the Achilles, but, I didn't get fired. Like Seth did. And you'll go you'll have to go back and listen to episode seventy four. If you wanna hear about that, he was on my show from adversity to abundance episode seventy four that came out in August of twenty twenty three. One of the the gold nuggets toward the ends, the end of this show, this episode where I'm the guest, of Seth, is, something I share that my business coach has taught me, and it's the concept of permanent beta And my my business coach Chris Steer is is fantastic. And, he has this concept that I think he came up with. It's called permanent beta where you're ever changing, you're you're always taking in new information. You're always evaluating. You're open to changing your mind and always growing. Always getting better. So That's something we talk about which which I think is is a really neat concept. And there's a lot more in here and, I I think you're gonna really like this one. So buckle up.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring on super newer, then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you impactful stories of real people. Who have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of abundance. A life of abundance. You are not alone in your struggle. Join us, and you will experience the power of true stories and gain practical knowledge from founders who have turned poverty into cross and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage you through your health, relationship, and financial challenges So you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life you are destined to live. Turned your adversity into abundance. Speaker 2
Jamie, what's going on, brother? Welcome to the show. Speaker 3
Thanks, Seth. This is this is awesome. I'm excited to be here, and I'm hoping to add some value. Speaker 2
Absolutely, man. Third time's a charm, we've been trying to schedule it after I was on your show, which was fantastic. I had a really good time, on that show. And I think it turned out pretty good. So we're gonna Absolutely. We're gonna deliver on this one as well. Speaker 3
Yeah. We're gonna try to try to I'll try to do as as good a job as you did. So, yeah, that was that was Yeah. No. I that was a very, very good episode from adversity to abundance. I would highly recommend your your listeners check that out to your episode on that show. So thanks for thanks for doing that. Speaker 2
Absolutely, man. You're an incredible interviewer. I've I've net that's the only, I've been on dozens of podcasts and I've, you know, you pulled out a lot of things for me that I've I've never talked about on the air. So it's pretty pretty awesome. Pretty awesome show, man. Speaker 0
Appreciate that. Speaker 2
Cool, man. Well, let's just jump right into your background. I mean, what's your story? Take it back as far as you'd like to, brother? Speaker 3
Yeah. Man, have you I've I'd like to think that life has phases. So I've had a few different phases in in my life. You know, I come from a large family. I'm I'm the oldest of seven kids, and we always had a competitive, background as far as team sports and things like that. So I played lacrosse in college. That was always a foundational piece of of my life and just kind of I think from there, learned how to be a part of something bigger than myself and how to work toward a common goal with a with a team. So that's been something that's been a a kind of a thread through my life. And then, got married and, joined the military. And, actually joined the military technically before I got married, but it seemed like I got married and then ran off and and, ran away from my wife. It's not exactly what happened, but, joined the military, was an officer in the in the US army. Did I did miss my first three wedding anniversaries through deployment and things like that. And again, it was a matter of trying to be plugged into something you know, to serve and be a part of something bigger than myself and trying to trying to add value. Like, I think we all we all wanna do I've obviously glossed over a lot of lot of details, but those were, a couple of inflection points, I guess, if you will. Like, you like to talk about, I know. And so my military career transitioned into a a a career with the Department of Defense as a civilian and, did fourteen years as a civilian with DOD at Fort Mead in the first half. So the first seven for all you math whizzes out there, was full time. And then the second half, the second seven years was part time. And that seven years is when I was really building my businesses, which are largely, real estate investing and mortgage note investing focused so we can get into the details there. And then in twenty twenty two, I ended up quitting my job and and Now I have a few different small businesses that I run. And like you, Seth, I've got a got a lot of different things that I'm juggling, and, You know? So but, yeah, I I love talking about taking ownership of of your financial situation and taking ownership of your your life, really, and, I know that you and I have that in common. So, yeah, that's a that's a high level overview of my background. Speaker 2
Awesome, man. I appreciate that. There there's a lot to unpack there. You know, going back to, you know, playing sports all the way up to the collegiate level, that's incredible. I always like to to think even playing like popcorn or football back in the day, you need a way to instill discipline in yourself. And I I that's kind of the the oldest memory I could think of where it was hard. Right? Like, it was, like, you've got a coach screaming at you. Like, back in the day, it's, like, you know, they wouldn't give you water unless like, you know, Speaker 3
for like an Speaker 2
hour, which I don't think they do that anymore now. But, you know, you had to earn that drink of water and and all those sorts of things, but you you really learned what it's like to to work hard and you really learned what discipline was all about. And I would say that and you can you can expand on this. But I I would say that, you know, being in the military yourself, that takes it to a whole new level. Right? It's like you you you got that from sports. You got that from the military. Speaker 3
Yeah. Definitely. I mean, obviously, they're very different in a lot of ways, but that is certainly a common theme is is being disciplined. And, and people people shy away from that word, because it just sounds like work or or no fun and no flexibility, but I found that having discipline in your life ends up adding more freedom in a sense, because you kinda have your foundational pieces set in stone. You don't have to think about those. And so, yeah, regarding team sports, it's it's really a matter of, you know, everyone doing their part. Right? And so there's a level of individual discipline and, and then just and then also just kind of putting the putting the group ahead of yourself. Obviously, the, you know, you want individual there's nothing wrong with individual accolades, and I I was certainly chasing, you know, those individual accolades. It's not something I shied away from. I was, you know, definitely was wrapped up in trying to be an all American and that kind of thing, and and did get that a couple of times, you know, but at the end of the day, nobody really cares about that. And, the way I viewed it was if I was doing my part and I got those, you know, if I was scoring goals in La Cross as an example, that means I'm contributing to, you know, to the team. Right? And so there's obviously a fine line there, but of going too far, either way, But, yeah, that discipline is critical. You know, even it cert I played at a high level in college, and and there was year round, you're training, you're you're, you're into it. It was a division three school, but it but the reality was we work just as hard as any any d one program. And, Yeah. It's it's a these are skills that have paid off and are absolutely transferrable to the rest of of life. Speaker 2
For sure. Yeah. I think you you've gotta get those those intangible things. You've gotta develop them somewhere along the way. Whatever that is if that's board or the military or, you know, from your parents. I mean, you can get it from different places, but you definitely need it. I mean, you know, we're in different stages of our life. At this point, we're talking about a lot. We like talk about freedom and flexibility and fun, to try to get away from kind of the w two mindset. But in order to achieve freedom flexibility and fun in a successful way, you had you have to be disciplined to be able to get there. You you had to have done something successfully to be able to get there, or maybe what separates you from, you know, the guy living in a van down by the river. Right? Like, that guy that guy has freedom and flexibility. I don't know about fun, maybe fun, but Yeah. But, you know, it's it's it's a different obviously, it's a it's a different outcome. Speaker 3
Yeah. And I I I still I think I still need, you know, I still use a lot of discipline today. It's still still required, but it's, I guess, I guess, it's self imposed and You know, I just love love having that flexibility and that freedom that comes along with being an entrepreneur. So, yeah, it's been a central piece to my success for sure. But I I I still I don't think it ever, you know, goes away. I just get to pick and choose what you know, what discipline I wanna kind of enforce on myself, I guess. So yeah. Absolutely. And and that and as you said, I the military was a huge part of that for me as well. I mean, that's a different kind of different kind of discipline and different kind of teamwork and different, you know, if you lose a lacrosse game, Okay. You lost the lacrosse game, but military, the stakes are a little higher. So maybe certain things are more important attention to detail or credit is critical and but at the end of the day, it's yeah. It's the the the same principles apply across both, I I guess, sectors, if you will. Speaker 2
For sure. For sure. So let let's dive into that that transition. You started working kinda part time there for seven years. So that seems like a a transitional period How are you able to progress from, you know, that w two and what what I've heard you say is call yourself a w two quitter, and I love that. Yeah. You know, how were you able to progress from a w two person to a w two quitter? What enabled you to do then what that transition look like? I mean, you know, I Speaker 3
I do remember in twenty fifteen, probably a little bit maybe maybe say twenty fourteen, but I just you get, you know, I had a wife and two kids, and I I had the commute, the long commute that I I know a lot of people can identify with. So, it it just was groundhog day. It was the same thing over and over and over, and that's not me sitting here complaining about my family or having, having the opportunity to work But after a while, it gets old. Let's just be real. Right? So it's like you're sitting in traffic, and I just you start looking at you know, I was I worked for the government and you look around and you say who okay. Who's sort of ahead of me on this? Like, you like, I I think you probably mentioned on our on your your show on my my show, your episode, you look around to the people who are more kind of a lot further along the path than you, You say, do you wanna be that person? Is that the life you want? And, man, I did not want that. And, it just just having that just super long term, just, you know, the pot at the end of the rainbow, I guess. Nothing driving me in the in the interim. Man, it was it was just it was brutal. So I probably did a little woe with me for a little bit there, a little victim mentality for a bit, but then you start to realize, like, k. If you don't take ownership of your own life, no one's going to. Right? So no one's gonna come in and do this for you. So I'm not sure what truly, you know, created the change in my mindset, but my mindset absolutely started to change. And is made a shift, and I and I stopped watching cable news. I stopped, just, you know, stop paying attention to all the things that I can't control. And I couldn't control back then and and started saying, no, what do I have? What are my strengths? Who is in my who's back to the team thing, who's on my team? Who's, you know, who's in my network that I can add value to and who can add value to me? So I started looking around and you know, my father was a realtor for many years. My brother was a loan officer. I we had, one rental property at the time, and it's a and I had worked at didn't mention. I worked at a title company, and I worked for a mortgage broker before as well briefly. So I had this experience that a lot of people don't have. And that's, you know, that that doesn't mean I'm better than anyone. It just means these are my strengths. So let's point to that and let's use that. So I started really being intentional about focusing on my strengths and my assets that I had in my life. Right? And then another asset I used to see as a liability was the time in the car. So I started listening to podcasts. Oh, you know, and and and then it turned into wait. I don't even wanna go into work yet because this this podcast episode is amazing, and I'm learning so much, you know, bigger pockets and all the other real estate podcasts and different investing podcasts and, started using that mental bandwidth instead of focusing on national media stories that I have zero influence over. Here's something that I can actually take action on. And so in mid twenty fifteen, I I went part time and and it just so happens that at, DOD. It's one of the few agencies in the in the federal government where you can go part time and still keep your benefits. So I still had health insurance for my family. You know, most people don't have that option necessarily, but Oh, oh, well. I did. So that's what I did. And and, you know, that's, again, decide decide to start building my my other streams of income outside of my w two, had my circumstances been different if I was single? I probably would have just quit the whole thing. Right? But I was able to have that kind of laddered approach, I guess, or tiered approach to kind of ripping off the band aid. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. No. That that that's awesome. I love just the idea of of taking ownership of your your life. Right? Like, everybody has those moments where they're feeling sorry for themselves. But but the successful people, they don't sit there and stay in that that mindset. They they move on. They you're gonna be there sometimes where you've gotta get out of and you gotta say, okay. What what can I control? What can I change? And you don't say, you don't give other people the power to control you and your mindset and how you feel about your life. Right? Like, that's that's that's the thing. Like, if if you if you're constantly blaming someone else or saying this happened to me rather than what can I do to get myself out of it, then you're gonna be stuck there forever? You're you're gonna be you're gonna be spinning your wheels forever. And a lot of that, I think helps because you said you don't listen don't watch the news. I don't either. It's it's a waste of time. What control? What does that do for us? If if I do watch it, I literally do it for entertainment and you look at it as an I look at it like I'm watching sports. Speaker 3
Almost. Absolutely. Speaker 2
Yeah. I I look at it, like, this is funny. Like, I can you know what I mean? You kinda analyze it. Like, oh, this is funny. This guy is saying this in a debate. Right. This guy is saying that. It's not taking it as fact and news, and this is how I should live my life because of what they're saying. Speaker 3
Absolutely. And it's not to say that none of these topics are, you know, important. Right? I mean Right. Global, you know, war or, I mean, politics, poverty, global warming, whatever. It's all very important, but I have zero control over it, almost zero. Right? And then, you know, the other thing is fear sells and that's that's what they're selling. And so it doesn't mean that every story is invented and it's all fake fake news, but it it it just doesn't serve me. And so I'd rather focus on, you know, go ground up and kind of, just I see it in people, maybe older people in my own life now who maybe are retired, and and they watch the news all day. And it's like, they won't travel because they saw a news story that the airports are packed or something. And, you know, it's I'm sure that story was was accurate. Right? But it but the but the news can filter out and and you end up only focusing on the negative, really. And it just didn't serve me. So yeah. During that, like, the second seven years, I was able to build out my wife and I were doing single family real estate investing and doing a lot of the burr method that maybe some of your your audience is familiar with. And so kind of putting that capital back into the the rental property, machine and expanding our portfolio And then, eventually, last year well, in in twenty eighteen, I made the pivot. I kept the rental properties, but made a pivot to also add on mortgage note investing, and that's been my primary focus as of late. And, if you want, I can tell the story quickly about how I actually quit my job in twenty twenty two. I I think it's kind of kind of a funny one. Absolutely. Let's do it. Alright. So, I, so I'd two years ago, I was playing badminton And, I'd been doing now mind you. I used to be, like, tough, you know, athlete and, like, I I did, you know, did jujitsu for three years right up before this and, you know, used to lift weights a lot and still do it here and there, but you know, I think I'm tough. Right? And, I ruptured my Achilles playing badminton. So that's a an ego blow to add on to the physical pain that, you know, especially with the recovery. So I rupture my Achilles a little over two years ago today. And, I was out of work. It was my right right foot. And the reason I bring this up is not for sympathy, but, to say, you know, I couldn't drive for three months. So I actually, yeah, and I had tons of leave from from work. And by this time, I was tired, really tired of my was pretty much checked out. Like, I think you you might have been at your, your big law, job, but, that's right. I was I was checked out. I mean, I I wasn't the best employee at this point. And so I took as much leave as I as I could, you know, reasonably. Right. And so but couldn't drive. And so I I was out for three months, and I come back. So come back into work, and I'd had discussions with my wife about about leaving. It was just a matter of of when, not if. I can tell you truthfully. I had no idea that I was gonna quit this day, but I came back in from having been out for three months Mind you, no one gave me a call, no one from work, no one from my management gave me a call the entire three months I was out other than to say to ask me, are you vaccinated? Because you have to be vaccinated to be to get inside the building. Now I don't want this to turn into some controversial vaccine discussion or get your your podcast banned from something, but Yes. I'd been vaccinated to to answer the question, but no one asked me how's your how's your recovery going? Like, how what do you, you know, How's your life? You know, what's it's it's just, are you vaccinated? You need to get that shot before you come in? Okay. Great. Thanks. I really feel welcome here. Don't already just, you know, you know what, screw this place. Right? Come back in and just go to my desk, and this is this is an office space kind of thing where I go to my desk, and there's some there's an Air Force kid at my desk. And long story short, they kinda moved me somewhere else without telling me I can't find my desk. I finally find it. It's got a box with my name on it with, you know, monitors sideways and all, and clearly not a functioning, desk. And, you know, office space. So I literally quit that day. And I just say that it's just like I knew one hundred percent I was done. I my wife didn't know I was Right. I quit. But I I quit that day. Still worked for another month or two, but, I was there was no question. Zero question in my mind. I'm done with this place. So that was March of twenty twenty two, and ever since then I've just focused on building out my businesses and haven't looked back. Speaker 2
Awesome. Sometimes you just know. Right? Like, sometimes it's time. You just knew. I I love that story, man. For me, it was a little bit you already know the story, but, you know, for me, it was a little bit more of someone else's decision that I got fired. I mean, and and you'd mentioned that, you know, you you weren't the best employee at that point. Speaker 3
Correct. Speaker 2
You know, I knew the same thing. And and it's great to have awareness and perspective and kinda looking back now, you're like, would have done the same thing. Like, this guy doesn't wanna be here. His output isn't what it should be. Like, nope. He's got he's gotta go. I mean, he's not he's not the best employee. And and as a, you know, as a business owner now, I can, you know, I have really good perspective of that and and seeing that And they did they were doing me a favor by feeling, hey, like, your heart's not in it. Is it? And I'm like, no, it's not. It it's not. Speaker 3
Yeah. The reality is for me, it's really hard to work. You know, when once you go part time, I mean, I knew I was casting a vote against my career progression there. So as soon as I went part time in twenty fifteen, I wasn't saying, I'm in this for the long haul guys. This is this is my focus. You know, it's the writing's somewhat on the wall. Looking back, it's almost surprising. I lasted as long as I did. Right. But so, yeah, haven't looked back and just love love the entrepreneurial, you know, day to day and freedom that you alluded to and and just the multiple streams of income and certainly has its challenges. I I probably work harder now than ever than I ever have. But it's by choice. Right. So I love it. Exactly. Speaker 2
Same here, man. I mean, it's, you know, my my days are long. I mean, I I get up way before I used to get up when I when I had a ninety five. I worked past when I would have worked the nine to five, and it's definitely more hours. But when you're doing it for yourself and you're doing it cause you're working towards something that you believe in. Yeah. It doesn't feel like it's you're putting that much time in. Speaker 3
Definitely. I I wake up early a lot of days not on purpose is because I'm just excited to get cracking. So yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, let's let's kinda get into your current business. I know you you had mentioned that you focused on your strengths and your assets. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's important. I'll just I'll just say it's important to take an inventory of what your strengths are when you're kinda considering going into something else. Because a lot of our listeners are attorneys, they're doctors, folks like that. They kinda feel, like, maybe their their pigeonholed. Right? Like, well, if I'm not an attorney, what the hell else can I do? Right? Like, I don't know anything about real estate investing or node investing or starting a business or anything like that, but if you really take a step back, you you probably have a lot of skills that you've learned and honed in your career that you can use for something else moving forward, and that was that's what you're able to do. Speaker 3
Definitely. And one thing I'd say is that, you know, one thing that's always comforting for me is Nobody knows everything. Right? So you can always find somebody who knows more than you in a certain area. You know, there's one quote about every man is my superior in in in something. Right? So, basically, it it gives me a lot of comfort to know, like, just because an attorney listening to your show knows a way more than I do about a particular topic and many, many other topics. That doesn't mean I'm less of a person or, you know, I don't know more than that attorney does in in another area So it's okay. I'm never gonna know everything. There are other people who've already figured it out. So, you know, that's that's always comforting to me and when I say look to your strengths, it's also looking to the people in your network who know it can help you get to where you wanna go. So, yeah, I mean, so many things we take for granted that we do know. And, you know, example, when I started working at a title company fresh out of college, because it was my first real job and it paid, you know, a a salary. I realized quickly how little I knew about title insurance, settlements, you know, just just basic stuff. Now looking back pretty basic stuff, but you don't know that unless you work a title company or you're heavily involved in this, you don't you're not trained in that in school, typically. Right? So you know, you forget. And so your your listener out there, the the attorney, the doctor, I guarantee they have a lot of life experience, not just from their professional world, but just life experience that that they shouldn't take for granted. And the fact that you can go through law school and then be you know, be an effective attorney or go through medical school and be an effective doctor. That that means you you can learn things. Right? And so Again, I'll go back to life as seasons. I mean, you've shown that in your own story, Seth. Like, you know, it's a it doesn't mean just because I started a a certain business doesn't mean that's gonna be what I'm gonna be doing for the next twenty years or just because I'm an attorney now, doesn't mean that's what I have to do for the rest of my life. So we always have options. I mean, you might look back and wish you'd done something differently or something, but you only have one chance at this. And so, you know, you just make the most of it and and just keep I think keep learning constantly is critical. I I just hired a business coach. We've had one call. But one of his Matoes is, you know, one of his sayings is that he's always he's in permanent beta. So he's always changing, always improving. He's always growing. So I'm trying to trying to implement that as well. Speaker 2
Yeah. I love that. Permanent beta. I I haven't heard that before, but I like that I like that phrase. I like that phrase. So tell me about your current business. Tell me about mortgage note investing, start with the basics. Speaker 3
What is it? Yeah. So and and I'll try to keep it. There's so much to it. But again, none of it is difficult. It's just a lot of moving parts, and you've gotta, you know, it takes time to learn. We buy debt, so we buy a mortgage note, and that could be performing or non performing. The the real high level version is is, a performing note is kind of like a a long term buy and hold rental property, but you're buying the debt and becoming the lender becoming the bank, if you will. And so you're buying that performing note for cash flow. So I buy a performing note. The borrower now pays me through a a loan servicer and I get monthly payments. So that's a great way to go. The the problem with that is you can't really add value to that asset very well. You you're kinda it is what it is. And in fact, with mortgage notes, the value actually goes down over time, generally speaking, because the principal balance goes down. So it's just it's worth less than, you know, than, you know, than it would than it was when you bought it. And then on the other side, the non performing side of things, we buy those, as well. And those are more like a fix and flip property. So, although we're still buying the debt, we're not buying the property, but there's a chance to add value. There's an opportunity to buy distressed asset and add value to that asset and then sell that that non performing note either well, I should say sell that asset, whether that's as a reperforming note or as, through the the real estate itself, there there are a few different ways you can exit a non performing, note deal. And but but back to your kind of one of the the themes, thus far, one of the reasons I got into specifically that space was that I understood the real estate space. So I understood the single family residential real estate space. So it wasn't a huge leap for me to go from owning the property to now owning the debt on that property, whereas it would have been a lot bigger leap for me to say I wanna start buying distressed, you know, multifamily debt, which I know you could probably help me understand better. But at that, you know, it's like incremental progress and and and change isn't that scary. So I kind of expanded my you know, toolbox, if you will, and got into the mortgage note space. So we have a couple of note funds. One is open. Currently, and there there there are offer accredited investors, and, the the income fund that's open pays a monthly, aims to pay a a monthly, preferred return. I know you and a lot of your listeners are attorneys, so I gotta hold the line here. And, so the fund is structured to pay, to aim to pay a a monthly return of eight percent. It's not a there's no growth in that fund. It's literally a cash flow play and, diversification play you're putting your your capital in. We buy assets across the country. We've we've bought notes in in probably twenty five states at this point. And so the investment is diversified across geographic areas across borrower types. And you know, we buy for a certain yield. We take a small management fee, and then we, ideally, pay pay the preferred return that we're aiming for to our to our investors. Speaker 2
Yeah. Nice. Five zero six c, you're able to talk about it. It's, the credit investors only. Just wanna throw that out there. So, yeah, I mean, so just going back to the basics a little bit and we'll get back into the funds. Like, how do you how do you even find these things? I mean, Speaker 3
how do you how Speaker 2
do you get started? How do you find mistakes? Speaker 3
So, I mean, that is an ongoing challenge. I'm not gonna lie to you. That's one of the the things that truthfully, a passive investor who doesn't have time to to develop the network to go find these assets, they're just not gonna have success. You know, they might here and there, but it takes time. It's a it's a word-of-mouth industry just like real estate itself is. And, So we've built out a network of of sellers. And, you know, that could be quite honestly, I I've never had luck buying directly banks. It's really either a larger, mortgage note fund that's closing. So it might be a three year fund, and then they've got they've gotta liquidate. They've gotta figure out how to sell off what to do with these assets. And so that's a great opportunity to buy is just a fund that's closing or somebody, a note investor who's getting out of note investing or they've had a life change or something, you know, where they just, there's an opportunity to buy from them as well. And so there there are other, you know, I guess we buy from hedge funds, note investors, other note funds. There's a there are also note brokers as well out there. There are also some online exchanges like paper stack and a couple of others that you can go And I've bought and sold on on paper stack and other exchanges as well. And, you know, you can you can find assets there. But at the end of the day, we have our list that we list of people that we work with regularly, and I would say one thing is that doing due diligence on a note seller is just as important as due diligence on the assets that they're selling. And so it's it's taken some work and it's it's a work in progress always. But it is the million dollar question is where do you where do you find these assets? Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's that's the hard part. Right? That finding these assets is the hard part. Have you ever had to foreclose on on any of these notes and actually acquire the property. And I guess the follow-up question is do you ever look at a non performing note? Like, hey, I actually wanna own that property. Great questions. Speaker 3
Yeah. Great questions. To be clear, we're not trying to kick people, you know, grandma out on onto the street or anything like that. You know, that's not our our goal typically. Well, that's never our goal, but we're we're never trying to kick someone out of their home. But the reality is some people honestly need a little bit of a kick in the pants. And oftentimes, that's not really the best them staying in the house is not often the best scenario for them. I know that might sound sound harsh, but at the end of the day, if someone can't afford to live somewhere, sometimes peep these people are living in squalor, and they really need a change of of environment. To answer your question about do we target the property Yes. Sometimes we do. In fact, we just closed on two. They're called, hechem loans or reverse mortgages. Where the borrowers are deceased, the property is underwater, meaning, you know, the the loan amount is higher greater than the property value. And it should be a quick exit through the property. So HUD will sell off these, big pulls of of reverse mortgages and we were able to purchase two of them very recently. It's a vacant property. You're not doing an eviction. Barrer is deceased. You've gotta work through the heirs or or foreclosure, and get and exit the property that way. If your listener wants to go to my website, I've got a really good, it's a Jackson bill blog post. I've got a couple of blog posts about this deal. I still hold this rental today, and it was a non performing note that we purchased few years ago. And, I had no intention of exiting through the property or holding holding the the property as a rental property, but running the numbers, it just was too good to to let go. And so long story, but we we you know, ended up doing a deed in lieu of foreclosure, actually, in this case, and got the property back. And now it's a long term buy and hold property for my own rental, portfolio. Speaker 2
Yeah. That makes sense. It makes sense. There's there's always multiple ways to look at an investment. Right? But it does sound, you know, this is not something that that I've executed on myself, but it sounds like this is an active business. Right? And that's why you put together an income fund for people that want to get involved passively. Because as as everybody knows, there's active investments. There's passive investments. If you're gonna do something active, maybe your returns are gonna be a little bit better, but you're gonna give up a lot time and effort to to get those returns. So if you wanna go to the passive side, if you if you're still full time in your career, you're you're full time doctor or lawyer or or whatever you are, you know, these passive investments are the way to go, without having to know every single detail about a new business this. Speaker 3
Yeah. And I don't know if you can see this, but I I wore this specifically for your for this shirt. There it Speaker 2
is. There it is. Speaker 3
Passive income. You're absolutely right. You know, these gurus, some of the some of the node investing gurus out there will try to sell, you know, notes as passive. We have another blog post that talks about just the it's a spectrum. There's active and passive on either end, but at the end of the day, if you're gonna note investing in my world is very, very active, and we have a non performing note fund that's considerably more active than their performing note fund. So, you're dealing with foreclosures, bankruptcies, Dean and Lou, tracking delinquent property taxes, do I have to physically go anywhere? No. But it is not passive. But that's why we offer the passive investment to for, you know, people who, like you said, have maybe more capital than time or energy they wanna put that capital to work. Speaker 2
That's right. There there are certain gurus out there that, you know, whatever it is that they are pitching it's they they tend to always pitch it as as passive, even though it is an active business, whether that's mailbox money. Yeah, whether that's a mortgage note or, I mean, people will pitch Airbnb short term rentals as passing. They're like, well, you can delegate this and you can you know, you can automate that and there's software for all these things, but you still gotta put all that stuff together. You've still gotta monitor all those things. You've you've still gotta you've still gotta oversee all these different aspects of a business, and that's what it is. It's a business that you're running, and it's not passive. Like No. No. No. No. It's not. It's not. And and it is on a spectrum. Some things are more passive than others, but when you're investing in you know, as a passive investor into some sort of a fund or syndication, that's really leaning really far into the the passive side. Speaker 3
Absolutely. Hundred percent. And I and I'm as you are, Seth, I'm I'm I'm a I I assume you are. I know you're an active investor, but I I do have passive investments myself, you know, other other funds, other note funds, and and my own my own note funds as well. And so nothing wrong with doing both, but I would say you need to be careful about, you know, you gotta make a decision at some point. Do you want to scale this thing and and make this really a business? Or do you do you are you satisfied with potentially a little bit lower return? And you are giving up some control, but much, you know, much fewer headaches and just a lot less work. Right. Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. And a lot of, you know, a lot of the listeners are high income earning professionals. So they've already put a lot of time and effort into being able to earn this much money from their w two. And that's probably your best bet, to be honest with you. I've I've been there. I was in those shoes. You're probably better off putting your head down, like, let's grind for a few years. Let's let's not spend every single dollar that we make on all the new stuff on a on a new car every two years or every year in a bigger house that you don't need, like, less sit aside some of that and invest it passively. And then maybe one of those will stick. Maybe one of those passive investments will be a a a mortgage no fund where you're like, man, I kinda like this business. Like, you know, I like to sound a bit. I've learned about it, and then you start maybe progressing on the active side and maybe that takes over and and you wanna get into that as a as a business as an entrepreneur, but A great way to kinda dip your toe in the water is to become a passive investor. That's the way that I did it in the, you know, multi family syndications. I invested actually in a number of deals first and kinda learn about it, learn the ropes. And I'm like, I can do this. And then that's when I made the transition. Speaker 3
Yeah. Definitely. It's it it really comes down to what you what your goals are and what your situation is for sure. I'll say I was too passive initially when I went into notes. Because personally, I just don't meet your your you were probably a little better student, Seth, not that I was a bad student, but, you know, I I invest unless I'm actively in investing, you know, I'm I'm just not gonna learn a lot. So the reality is, yeah, it's fine to learn about the asset class you definitely should learn about the operator for sure if you're putting capital with them, but you're not gonna once you get in your checks and your disbursements, not gonna probably learn a whole lot about how to do that on the active side. And so that's what we're here for. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It's more of, like, a spark of an interest. Right? Like, maybe if you already have that spark and then you invest past it, then you're like, okay. Well, now I'm invested. Like, let me learn about this. You have to you have to actively go out there and educate yourself and network and talk Speaker 3
to people that are in the business. Definitely. Hundred percent. Speaker 2
Alright, man. Before we jump into the Freedom four, you have one last golden nugget for our listeners. Speaker 3
Oh, man. I would say within when it comes to investing, you know, take the long term view. Don't chase immediate returns. You know, I do think just Yeah. It's certainly, we all wanna make a million dollars tomorrow, but I think it's it's a play the long game when it comes to investing. I think that's critical. Speaker 2
Love that man. Alright. Let's jump into the Freedom four. What's the best thing you do to keep your mind and body healthy? Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, one thing that I instituted this year, actually, is breath work. And it's, you know, it's so it takes ten minutes, and per day for me at least. And it it's been phenomenal. And, it's something that, quite honestly, as a as a you know, athlete back in the day or even in the military, I would have scoffed at something like this, to be honest with you, because it's just, you know, it's not manly or whatever. And it's like, it is phenomenal. So breath work. I mean, I do other things for sure, but that's certainly this year. It's been a a game changer for me. I just feel like it resets my central nervous system, and it just gets me focused. And, I know there are other physiological benefits that you can ask, Doctor. Andrew Huberman or somebody else about Speaker 2
Cool. I'll have to look into that. I actually haven't. I mean, obviously, everybody talks about it. It's a hot topic. Yeah. I haven't gotten into it. Haven't gotten into that plus, like, the cold plunges and that sort of thing. Yeah. But I really want to wanna explore that a little bit. Speaker 3
I don't know how much you can cut this out if you don't have time, but I had a I'm just gonna be be open about this. I just had a, you know, in late December. I got a viral infection, like a norovirus, and then I had I had a what I think was a pretty severe panic attack, and it was super scary. And so that's why I started, doing this. And somebody on my team actually sent me a a, I guess, we'll call it an implement or a tool that I use for the breath work. It's blue there's a Bluetooth connection to your phone, and it's pretty cool. So it's structured and back to that discipline. Right? But Yeah. So it's there was a reason I started doing it, and, it's it's so accessible in five to ten minutes a day you can start doing it. So yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2
Very cool. How do Speaker 3
you recommend? Speaker 2
Cool. Thanks for sharing that, man. With all your success, what is one limiting belief you've crushed along the way, and how did you get past it? Speaker 3
I think just, you know, being afraid to you know, that that you have to be perfect. Right? So, I used to be an editor back in the day, and so many things would just not get done or not get completed within our team or organization, because it had to be perfect. And it and it's like, I think as I've progressed into more of the entrepreneurial lifestyle and and, it's just it's not a it's not an option anymore. So, yeah, I think just taking action has kind of overcome that limiting belief of of of of chasing perfection. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I can I can I can agree with you there? Done not perfect. Yes. You know, my background as an attorney, I mean, we're we're paid to be perfect. Like, we can't make mistakes, especially in contracts and the way that we write things, but you kinda make that transition over to being an entrepreneur, there's too much there's too much to do to be to be perfect. You guys, you just gotta get it done. Good enough. Absolutely. Speaker 3
Good enough has to you have to be open, willing to accept that for sure. Yep. What's one actionable step our listeners can do right now Speaker 2
to start creating more freedom? Speaker 3
So I'll use the military here. You can, which is where I learned kind of reverse backwards planning, reverse planning. So literally just and I'm not gonna tell you I I'm perfect at this. But you know, think about what create a vivid vision for your life in in the next three to five years. Pick a pick three years out from today. And what do you want your life to look like? And then backwards plan. And now I'm not saying you need to plan every minute of every day, but you can be that will that will increase the urgency sense of urgency in your life and the intentionality of every every hour and every day because you realize this is doable, but I gotta take ownership of of my current situation if I want this to be the reality in three years. So I would say create a vivid vision and and kind of reverse or backwards plan to get there. Perfect. Perfect. Last but not least, Speaker 2
How has passive income made your life better? Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, I think in multiple ways, but a big one that stands out is is giving me I guess, we'll call it margin, to take some more risks on the entrepreneurial side and because I do have alternative sources of income, passive income. It's allowed me that kind of mental and financial bandwidth or margin to maybe invest in a company that even if it doesn't per go perfectly or doesn't go well and it's not profitable, that's okay. I still have that cushion, for for me and my family. So that's, yeah, it's a huge been a huge factor in that regard. Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. Game changer, man. It it just changes your mindset, changes your life in so many ways. Jamie, this has been incredible, dude. You've got so much great content to to share in in your brain, man. You gotta get it out there. I know you've got an awesome podcast that I was adverseity to abundance. Everybody should check that out. Other than that, Jamie, where else can people find out more about you? Speaker 3
Yeah. Just two things I'll mention very quickly. Literally got my book delivered today, like an hour before I hopped on here. It's, from adversity to abundance. It is based on the podcast So I encourage your listener to check that out from adversity to abundance is the book that's out, and then labrador lending dot com, l a b r a d o r dot com is where you can check us out. Speaker 2
Alright, man. Awesome. I'll drop all that in the show notes. Thanks again for coming on, brother. Speaker 3
Thanks for having me, Seth. This been great. Speaker 1
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