Episode Rerun: From Women's Shelters and $700k in Debt to an 8 Figure Net Worth with REI Mom Anna Kelley

Speaker 0

This episode is awesome. You're gonna love it. We interview Anna Kelly. We have a conversation with her. She's known as the REI mom. She she can be, you can learn more about her at REI mom dot com. But Anna went through grew up in poverty and dealt with abusive situations within her family. And however, she harnessed all that adversity and navigated that really well and latched on to hope and hard work and grit and sacrifice. And today, she has an eight figure net worth. She's a huge multifamily syndicator. She has a lot going on in the real estate space. And, the ten year journey that we really talk about from where they she and her family were kind of at rock bottom, you know, within as far as their own personal financial situation. And then within ten years, she really exploded, in the real estate space, and she was able to work a full time job, be a wife and mother, be a real estate syndicator and investor, and now she's an author, speaker, and a mentor. And to just see the the although there were a ton of ups and downs that that Anna went through, to see the growth and the success and and the fruits of her labor, it's just it's thoroughly inspiring. And she's been able to, you know, work hard at the at the the tasks that's in front of her and approach the day to day with, like I said, grit and hard work, but also kind of step back and see the big picture. And now she's, one of the more influential real estate investors out there. So we're very honored to have had Anna on the show. You're gonna love this. She drops a ton of knowledge and four or five excellent book recommendations toward the end, which is great. So buckle up. You're gonna love this one. 

Speaker 1

From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. 

Speaker 0

Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to be joined by a special guest, Anna Kelly, the REI mom. Anna, how are you doing today? 

Speaker 2

I'm doing great. It's so good to be here with you. 

Speaker 0

Thanks for joining us. I know you are got a lot of things going on, and so I I appreciate you taking the time. And I know our audience will appreciate you taking the time to, share with us your story and and, drop, some knowledge bombs for us. That would be fantastic. So for our audience, Anna, who is not familiar anyone not familiar with you, what are you up to today? And and, give us a little bit of context, from the for from the present day, if you would. 

Speaker 2

Sure. So I am primarily a multifamily syndicator, doing both value add deals and new development multifamily properties primarily in Texas and in Pennsylvania and the Raleigh, North Carolina area. I've been investing in real estate since nineteen ninety eight, got much more serious about it in two thousand nine after the great financial crisis, the great recession. And I've done everything from fix and flips to small single houses to vacation rentals. I have eleven short term rentals, to small multifamilies, and that's really where I grew my wealth. I replaced my six figure corporate career at AIG, about four years ago and then moved into much larger syndications from there. 

Speaker 0

Oh, that's great. And our audience is, largely entrepreneurs, within that, entrepreneurial, you know, category. There's certainly a large subset of real estate investors like myself, and I was able to quit my w two last year. So there's a lot to talk about. A lot we can unpack there from a business, you know, an entrepreneurial standpoint as well. So Yes. And and we'll certainly dive back into later in the show, as to, to to touch on kind of market conditions and what you have going on today. I look forward to that. So before we get there, though, we gotta talk about some adversity, unfortunately. So, you know, as you know, Anna, not everything is rainbows and butterflies and unicorns, and, you know, I just quit my job, and I just sit my thighs on the beach. So talk to us about some struggle that you've been through. Pick it up where you'd like to start, but, you know, you know, and and, let's dive into your backstory. 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. Yeah. I I love that this show focuses on adversity because adversity is part of the human condition, and we all experience some type of diversity at different points of our lives. And, ultimately, those that are successful often are not those that were handed an easy life on a silver platter or wealth to begin with. They're really people who have struggled and have made something of themselves despite adversity. So it's a really, great topic and something that I think is is really important, one, to motivate people that regardless of what you're going through, better is possible, and you can control what that looks like into the future. And two, just to show that it's not all sunshine and roses. Even if we seem to have arrived, there's many things that can go wrong, you know, health and relationships and, you know, bad deals, etcetera. So a little bit about my backstory that I think, is is important when I think about how I've overcome diversity. I also did not grow up with wealth or any in any knowledge of of money or how to become an entrepreneur or even the thoughts of becoming an entrepreneur or real estate mogul, if you will. Mhmm. I grew up in section eight housing. So my parents divorced when I was very young, and my mom was a single mom, Had a couple of very abusive husbands, and so I'm the oldest of six of us. And my mom worked really hard to get out of abusive situations, unfortunately, got back in. And so she worked, you know, two jobs to be able to survive, and that left me basically a turnkey child of a mother who loved me and who worked hard and and and supported me and encouraged me to, be the best at whatever I could to work on getting an education and getting out of the type environment that we were in. But there was a lot of sadness in my childhood and, a lot of fear in my childhood. But those things are really what propelled me to become very, very driven and to realize that if I wanted a different life than what I had as a child, if I didn't want my children to be in an abusive situation or to spend evenings in a women's shelter like I had as a child, if I wanted better for myself and my family, I had to be willing to do whatever it took, to succeed and to get myself out of that situation. So I'm thankful that I knew I had a choice and that there were things I could do, but I certainly did not have an easy childhood. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. And and, obviously, we're not gonna, you know, pick that apart too far, but, you know, it it's, unfortunately, it sounds like you've dealt with you know, we find on this show most of the types of adversity or most of the examples of adversity fall into primarily one of one or more of three categories, health, financial, or relationship. That's been one of my observations in having done this show, for almost a year now. And we all deal with that on some level, challenges within those three categories on some level. Sounds like you've certainly dealt with at least two, of those three categories, you know, the the relationship and financial. And, talk to us a little bit more. Just give us a little bit more context as to, you know, how things were growing up for you, if you would. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I will say this. My again, my mother loved us, and she was a very good mother, but she just wasn't home a lot because of what she was dealing with. And my parents were divorced. My father and stepmother, married a few years after my parents divorced, and they, I thought, were very rich. In reality, my dad was a construction worker and my stepmother was a school teacher. And so they were an average, you know, working class family. But I did see that, you know, when there's not drugs and alcohol involved, when there's a cohesive family unit, you know, going to church together, really focusing on the family, that it's like night and day what it's like to grow up in section eight housing, you know, with a single parent that's struggling to survive. And so I really had a lens of, you know, worldview that allowed me to see if I want my life to look like this, there are steps I'm gonna need to take to ensure that it looks like this versus if I don't change, you know, certain things, then this is what that would look like. And so Mhmm. You know, it's one of the things that kept me from ever doing drugs or or drinking excessive alcohol because I understood that that was very common. And some of that's because in poverty, there's not a lot of hope. Children and adults don't have a lot of hope that things will get better. And so, you know, they're they're self medicating in some ways emotionally, and that's another thing that I I said, you know, I I can't give up. I remember sitting in this big tree, and it's interesting because I went back to this apartment complex that I grew up in for, I think, twelve years of my life. I used to sit in this tree and just cry and kind of dream. And I remember thinking there's no hope and then battling with myself and saying, yes. There is. I see what it looks like for my friends whose parents went to school, who have degrees, who have a little bit more money. And I know that I there is hope that I can have a life like that in the future. And so I think that's really important and something innate in me, I think, even from a very young age said, I can change what my future looks like, but that means I have to be very determined and very focused, and every decision I make can either lead to more abundance or more, challenges in life. So I I think that's kind of a theme of my life from the point of, you know, middle school trying to be the best, you know, flute player that I could or make straight a's, trying to get a scholarship. When I went to to school, I graduated high school early, and I went to school year round while I worked full time year round and graduated early from college. I was just very driven and determined that I'm going to work harder than my friends. I'm gonna study harder than my friends. I'm going to, you know, succeed and get this degree. And in my mind, once I graduated from from college and had a really good job, all my problems would be over. You know, it was naive of me, but I'm glad that the mindset at least allowed me to get to that first level to say, I can be independent. I can have nice things, and I don't have to worry about a man taking care of me quite honestly. 

Speaker 0

Sure. No. That's that's great. I mean, it's it's, obviously, unfortunate that you had to go through all those the struggles with regard to poverty and and, being involved in at least seeing abuse and and that kind of kind of thing. Yes. But sounds like on some level, what popped into my head was the, rich dad, poor dad. You it sounds like you kinda had a little bit of a glimpse into both worlds, kind of the the poor world and the quote, unquote rich world. And and what I'm also hearing is that you realized fairly early on that, a, hope is hope is critical, and, b, that you do actually have a lot of control in in your life, as to how your your life ends up. And I think that's that's one thing that, you know, I made a mindset shift, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, where instead of and I'm just speaking personally here. Instead of watching the the national news and and being absorbed with international issues that I have zero control and influence over, how about I start looking at who's in my network? What strengths do I bring to the table? And what can I absolutely influence and control? Because we certainly can't there are plenty of things we can't control, but I think we do have a lot more control over a lot of things, in our life than we often give ourselves credit for. I'll get off my Absolutely. I'll get off my soapbox. But, now walk us through you you mentioned graduating from college early. Walk us through from that point kinda up through today, if you would. 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. So one of the things that happened and, again, I think, you know, luck people say, okay. You're lucky. Right? They don't understand the backstory and all the adversity to get where you are. But I do believe that, you know, when you're prepared and preparation meets opportunity, that's what we call as luck. And so I I will say I had a roommate who had gotten a job at Bank of America, and they were starting a private banking department back in, I think, nineteen ninety seven or early nineteen ninety eight. And they were looking for master's MBA, people to come and join their private banking program to teach us to become financial advisers and go through our securities, licenses and then work with the top, most wealthy clients in the bank, the top ten percent ultra high net worth. And my roommate said, hey. My roommate doesn't have an MBA, but she worked full time. She just graduated college. She's been an employee of the year at her company. You should really interview her. And so they asked me to come interview for this position. And I went in not with a, oh, I'm not qualified, but, man, if I could get through what I did, I can do anything, and I'm going to go in and wow them. And and I did. And, you know, I'm very, very thankful that they took a chance on me, but they gave me a position in private banking and taught me for the first time in my life about money and how wealthy people continue to preserve and grow their their wealth as well as their income. And so that was a huge turning point in my life where I understood discipline and determination, but you also have to understand money and how it works to know that you can create a better financial future than what the average American has, you know, much less, poverty, which is really hard to get out of. But even the average American, you know, seventy percent live check to check to check no matter how much money they make. And so there's there's a struggle in chasing this American dream. So getting that job in private banking and working with very wealthy people opened my eyes to, the kinds of choices that I could make once I had money, and I learned from them about what did you do to get to where you are today. And just to kind of piggyboard you know, piggyback to the next level, I remember talking to one of our clients. Back then, we offered a a CD. It was in the eight percent range in the late nineties. And Mhmm. I remember this older gentleman laughing at me and saying, sweetheart, you know, I make much more than that in my real estate investments. And I realized two years in into private banking that I hadn't taken a single course on real estate, and I knew nothing about it. And I thought, well, wealthy people own real estate, and they make better returns than they do here. I need to at least start giving it some thought and start researching. And that led me to buy my first property, which was just a condo that I moved into instead of paying rent in an apartment building. And then I went to work for AIG. And working for AIG, it's one of the largest financial institutions in the in the world. Mhmm. I started working with products and product development, working with ultra, ultra high net worth individuals, banks, and institutions, and learning how do they invest their money, how do they grow wealth. And that really led me to starting to decide. I'm gonna keep my corporate job. I'm gonna keep moving up the corporate ladder, keep making my income, but we are going to strive hard to pay off all the school loans, to to pay off the cars, to get out of debt, and to start really investing. And real estate was was one of the ways that I started investing from there. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. No. That's, I can relate to a lot of that. You know? And one thing I wanna just emphasize is that you didn't have the whole path revealed to you beforehand. Right? And you none of us do. Right? But it sounds like you were able to kinda focus on the task at hand and really step up with regard to schooling or your or your prior employment and just doing the best job you could with what you were given at that time. 

Speaker 2

Yes. 

Speaker 0

And then opportunity presented itself, and then you made the most of that as well. So, you know, for people for the listener out there who they don't maybe see the opportunity right now, they haven't been presented that opportunity, I I would just encourage people that just do the best you can right now with what you're working on. You know, it's not to say you shouldn't analyze things or strategize or plan, but, ultimately, you know, it we're given kind of smaller responsibilities initially to work through and work, you know, work with and and, produce in that capacity, and then opportunity presents itself. And it sounds like you, made the most of that, and then you were also able to learn from, you know, these high net worth individuals. Hey. What are they doing? In you know? And and I'm sure you've reinvented the wheel on some level, but if if this is working for this person, let me copy what they're doing and see kind of what you know, pull out lessons learned, from them. And, again, I'm putting putting words in your mouth, but Yeah. I know for me, that's what I do. It's like, why this is working for someone else. I can follow what what they're doing on some level and kinda make 

Speaker 2

it Absolutely. 

Speaker 0

Fit my, circumstances and go from there. 

Speaker 2

For sure. And I think, you know, one of the things that just it's really important what you just said is is doing the best you know how to do. You know, you're not gonna have it all figured out. And I'll say that because of my background, I'm very much a planner. Like, this is my next goal. This is how I'm going to achieve it. I'm gonna drive to to reach those goals. And so I do have that. But what I realize is you can make a lot of plans and you can get really good at something, but then there's other things in life that can completely derail that. And it doesn't mean that what you've done or what you've learned is for not, but they become building blocks and lessons for you to say, okay. I've got this piece. Now this thing's going wrong. Now let me really focus on learning and growing in the next area and just keep doing the next right thing. And so, you know, an example of that is is after a few years of being it was about ten years in the financial, world working with the the highest net worth, individuals, banks, and their brokers and advisers, I thought I had gotten really smart about investments. Now I wasn't wealthy yet, but I was starting to save, and most of it at that time was in my four zero one k. I had dabbled in real estate, but I didn't have big down payments to put on things. And so I just kept investing in my four zero one k. And I have to tell you, Jamie, in two thousand nine, I was completely blindsided and devastated by the great recession. You know, AIG being in the news that they were shutting their offices in New York, and these companies I had been invested in were failing. And I'll never forget, like, the the most low day other than in my childhood was 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

You know, in two thousand nine, a day that we were on the news. I was told we're probably gonna lose our jobs. And I looked at my four zero one k, and it had lost about three quarters of its value. And that was all that we owned. And the same week, I found out I was pregnant with baby number three, and we had just started a business in two thousand seven. So we, you know, we talk about these building blocks. I went from being an employee and having that mindset to I wanna be home with my kids, and I wanna grow wealth. So my husband needs to become an entrepreneur, and he needs to start his own business and work for himself. So we moved my whole family across the country and started a job with a lot of debt in two thousand seven. So we had paid off all this debt early, a personal debt, but I had been convinced that we're at the top we're at a great economy. It's only gonna get better. You gotta go into business debt, and it's different than personal debt. And so we we made that mistake. We learned from no personal debt, but we didn't learn about no business debt or starting a business when we understood nothing about economic cycles and the fact that we were heading in a downward recession. There were warning signs, but we didn't know anything about it. So for a while, I beat myself up, you know, for a couple months in two thousand nine going, how did I miss this? How did we miss this? I tried to do all the right things, and yet here we are wiped out about seven hundred thousand dollars in business start up debt plus the building, no four zero one k, pregnant with a third baby, and AIG was our only income. And it was a devastating few months that I had that decision again. Like, am I gonna learn from these things? Be thankful that I made the best decisions that I knew at the time, but say now that there's adversity, I'm either gonna give up or I'm gonna say I have hope. And once again, I'm gonna figure out how to make the next best decision until I climb out of the debt and build up, you know, the the retirement again, etcetera, etcetera. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. That's, that's a lot to to deal with for sure. I can't even imagine. I mean and, you know, it's easy to say, but, no one saw it coming really on the the level that it that it did happen. Right. And so you weren't alone in that sense. You know, I I don't think anyone fully predicted the the crash that occurred. But, so how did what lessons did you learn? I mean, you you referred to no business debt. Do you is that are you just completely anti business debt, or, how do you approach that? 

Speaker 2

You know, I think a couple of really big lessons learned. One is that you can be really smart and really good and specialized in one area. For example, being an entrepreneur in a certain type of business. So my husband was a chiropractor. Right? He could be the best chiropractor that he could be. I could be the best real estate investor I could be. But if I didn't understand the economic factors that could impact me, even if I tried to make all the right decisions at the same time, then I may make poor decisions about the timing of when I start a business, when I take on that debt, what type of debt, and how much I take on, for example. So if I had watched the economy, even though we were blindsided and major major financial institutions were kind of blindsided, there were warning signs since too early two thousand six, and there were people writing articles saying, there's a housing crisis gonna happen. There's there's this crisis gonna happen. There's too much derivatives and debt and risk and, you know, in these financial institutions. But I wasn't reading any of that. I didn't think economics really mattered. I thought I had more control than I really did. So I learned to become a student of the economy, understand real estate cycles because I'm now all in real estate, and understand economic cycles at least to the point that I watch the warning signs to say, are we closer to the peak, or are there signs that we might be in a declining economy or in hitting a recession? So that was the first thing. The second thing was that that debt. Generally speaking, I am opposed personally to any debt unless it's very, very, very stable, low leverage, and able to be covered by the income that comes in. So real estate debt, I'm very comfortable with. I have tens of millions of dollars in real estate debt, literally. But it's debt that for the most part is fixed fixed for a long period of time and has is providing housing in areas that have significant housing demand, very low housing supply, really great jobs, great schools, and low crime. Those are kind of my check mark that if it doesn't have that quality of asset, I don't wanna put a lot of debt on it. The quality of the asset and the location of the asset in very financially strong areas makes a big difference as to the level of risk taking on that debt has. And then the third thing, and then I'll turn it back over to you, that I really learned was, again, just a reminder that we are we have a choice in our life of the kind of life that we wanna create. And I determined that, despite lots of no's, right, I wanted to to own more real estate. I realized my husband's job, his his entrepreneurship business wasn't gonna save us. I couldn't depend on even one of the largest employers in the world for my job security or our family's financial security or my retirement accounts. What everybody was still doing was paying me rent despite not despite the economy. So I realized I need to take more control and build my income as well as my future on things that I had more control of. And so I moved really completely to real estate from that point on and made the decision that every decision every day, I'm gonna not take no for an answer. Lenders weren't lending. Properties were there, but I couldn't get financing. Not to take no and to continue to push and push and get creative and find other ways to buy property, for example, so that I could continue to to create the life of my dreams, one step at a time, one action at a time no matter how long it took. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. It's fantastic. I mean, you it's just very well articulated the the three lessons that you learned from from all of that financial hardship, and, I just love it's a central theme for our show here is just taking ownership, not continuing to have a victim mentality. Yes. Yes. We we we are all victims in some sense, right, of certain circumstances and things, but it it doesn't get you very far to to to to stay there, mentally. So I love that mindset shift of taking action, But also, as you as you emphasize, not just one step. It is one step at a time, but it does sound like you also kind of were able to take a wider view of things as well and say, how does the market play into all of this? You know, and and kinda be more be strategic about it, but then able to kinda zoom back in and focus on the day to day. So it that, I've heard this referred to as, like, a rubber band in marketing where you kind of you you blast out to a bigger bigger, audience, if you will, and then you zoom back in. And and it sounds like you've been able to kinda navigate that from a planning and and, action, you know, point of view, if you will. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think in hindsight, it seems more that way than it probably was in my mindset at the time. At the time, it was like, what happened? What can I learn from this? It was really initially like fight or flight. Right? Like, okay. I've lost almost all my four zero one k. Here's an example, of making just a good, like, nuanced micro decision. Lost most of my four zero one k. Companies are still going under. I need to pull it out. I know as a financial adviser, we're told never ever ever take out your four zero one k. I said, if I lose my job, I get a severance package. I may have to pay this back, but I took a four zero one k loan. And I saw a building for sale across the street, a four unit, and it would bring in about twelve hundred dollars a month after all expenses. And I thought I'm having a baby in a few months. I could lose my job. But if I have another twelve hundred dollars a month, that'll pay for formula. If I can't nurse, it'll pay for, you know, for food, etcetera, to put on the table, and I knew that at least we would be okay. Like, my mortgage was covered by my tenants. I lived in a four unit, which was another good decision I made the year before 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

To just live below my means. So we had tenants paying. We bought that building, and I thought, maybe in the future, I'll regret that I took out the money. But right now, here's one thing I can control. I can buy that building, have a thousand dollars more a month, and we'll be okay today. So it was very micro decisions like that. Like, just make the best decision I can. And then as I started really studying the economy and as banks kept saying no, I'm like, why are they saying no? I have a great job. I have great credit. AIG was in the news every day that they were laying people off, and real estate was crashing. So, no, I wasn't a good risk to these lenders. But I thought, what is what is happening, and will it change? And when I started studying the markets, I learned about economic cycles that the most opportunity is at the bottom when everyone's afraid. So that did kinda open my eyes to go, wait a second. If this is the bottom and I have more opportunity and there's tons of properties out here like I've never seen before, I just have to figure out how to get them financed and how to buy them when I have no money. So that became the macro picture was, I'm not gonna say no. There are ways that investors are still doing deals without their own money. Right? That's what we were sold in late night, infomercials about no money down deals. Now I need to figure out how can I buy properties with no money because I knew if I could buy a bunch at the bottom when there's no competition, that over time, those properties would go back up in value, create me more cash flow? And so at that point, I started to think a little more, you know, of the big picture that I just gotta make one decision every day, day by day, one more property, one more property, get as much as I can, however long it takes. And from then on, I've had a very macro perspective of, where is the market and how should that impact what I do, what I buy, when I sell, etcetera. 

Speaker 0

Well, it makes sense. You've just gotten more sophisticated in your your investing approach. Yeah. But I will say I thought Brandon Turner and bigger pockets created, house hacking. So there's, you know, there's no way you could have been doing that back then now. I'm kidding. You don't 

Speaker 2

have to respond 

Speaker 0

to that one. But, no. It is a very powerful way to go for sure if someone's in that position, you know, to to live in a four unit, for example, and collect rent from three sets of tenants and have them pay your mortgage. So that that's, that's really smart. So kind of 

Speaker 2

if you extremely powerful. That was another lesson. You know, I I knew that in order to expand my means in the future and, really, at that time, all I wanted, Jamie, was to be home with my kids. I'm like, if I can just get my husband's business up where it makes what I make, I'll be home. I wasn't even thinking about wealth. I was just thinking I wanna be home with my kids, have enough income. And so, you know, I made that decision that in order for me to move across the country and take on the risk of a new business, which we knew ninety five percent of businesses fail in the first five years or so, that we need to downsize our life and not turn around and buy another big house. So we learned that, and so we we lived below our means. And to this day, if we hadn't lived below our means and house hacking was a way for us to do that, we never would have had the extra money to to start investing again and to even work toward expanding our means. And because we've always had that mindset of let's live below our means while we work to expand our means, both of those things have to happen at the same time if you really wanna change your financial future and really wanna grow wealth. 

Speaker 0

No. That's a very, very good point because it's really easy for us to gloss over that point as far as the the personal sacrifice that it requires to tighten your your belts and tighten your budget at that point. Yeah. Because you you didn't necessarily need to maybe, but for your future, you needed to. Yeah. So compare and contrast, if you would, kind of that low point, versus today. What do things look like for you today? 

Speaker 2

You know, Jamie, I I pinch myself. I truly, truly am am extremely blessed, and I believe that. You know? I I believe, that that God has blessed us and and opened up opportunity At the same time that I I recognize that I made some really good decisions, thankfully, out of the really poor decisions. But in, you know, from two thousand nine until, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, actually, is when I actually retired from AIG. I didn't lose my job during that ten year period, which was shocking because we kept saying we were going to. And so I had a really good, position that was not easy to replace. But, essentially, for ten years, we lived below our means. We did not buy a house for years. We rent after we house hacked, we ended up with four children. So we ended up renting a house for several years while we bought other small properties with the money instead of a down payment on a home. But that ten years of significant sacrifice where we did you know, everything we made in our real estate investments, we put back into buying more. We didn't live on any of it. And so we lived below our means for ten years. And then four years ago when I retired from AIG, I had enough cash flow consistent in our rentals. At that point, I built about a hundred units of my own in that ten year period, that seemed to take forever. It was seventy, eighty hours a week of sacrifice. And then I started doing joint ventures of larger apartment buildings before I actually left AIG four years ago and then syndication. So, you know, now I have an eight figure net worth. I've I've done a couple thousand dollars in multifamily real estate. Myself and two partners own another two hundred and fifty units, and then we do syndications of, you know, several thousand units at this point. So it's been it's night and day, the position that I'm in today, where, you know, my husband's now retired from his chiropractic, business. I'm retired from AIG. I still work, but, you know, for me, instead of seventy, eighty hour weeks for a decade, now I work because I want to, because I get to build a bigger legacy and help investors and things of that nature, but I work significantly less hours than I ever have, probably thirty to thirty five hours a week. But I'm blessed that because we started this journey and didn't give up ten years ago, that if I never did another deal a day in our lives, we would be set for the rest of our lives because of of what we built and the sacrifices we made for a decade. 

Speaker 0

That's fantastic. That's congrats. I mean, that's phenomenal. Thank you. And, you know, it's it's so easy to to look at someone's success and say, well, they, you know, must be nice or, they're an overnight success. And if you, you know, it was a long journey to get where you are. I know it was. And if if you look back on where you were in your childhood, it certainly was not a up into the right straight line to success or ton of ups and downs and a lot of sacrifice for sure. But it's just fantastic. I mean, to see that, you know, for the listener out there that it is possible. You know, they they may not end up exactly how how you are, you know, how your your whatever your lifestyle is today, but, but they absolutely, if you have a long term view, and you're willing to sacrifice, put in the work, you absolutely can get from adversity to abundance. 

Speaker 2

And Absolutely. 

Speaker 0

I don't pretend on this show that Anna Kelly has no more problems, and, you know, we know that we all still have problems. But Yes. It's amazing the growth that you've you've experienced through your through your life. So just kudos to you. It's fantastic. 

Speaker 2

Thank you. Thank you. One thing I'll just throw out there too. I I'm I'm really a firm believer being able to look back on my life, and I think you first reached out to me because of a book that I wrote where we kinda talked about, you know, that that journey to abundance from that adversity. But I've really learned to look at every challenge in life as not happening to me, but happening for me. Because when we go through adversity, when we go through challenges, it forces us us to rise up and not accept complacency in the status quo or victim mentality. We have to say, okay. This is a challenge. How am I going to use this challenge and see it as a blessing and an opportunity that's gonna set me up for that next lever level of growth? And if I hadn't been through all the challenges I've been through, I never would have even gone down the path of real estate. My life would have been easy and comfortable, and I would have thought, okay. This is fine. But those challenges made me think, what can I do to overcome this? This is happening for me, and I can either take advantage of what's happening for me or I can stop and play the victim mentality and say this is happening to me. I'm just not the kind of person that that good things happen to. And so I think that's an important mindset shift as you go through adversity and you will many times in your life. How can you use this to better you as a person to make you wiser, to make you more compassionate, and then just, make good decisions through every challenge as as a blessing and an opportunity rather than happening to you. 

Speaker 0

I love it. Yeah. There's not much for me to add there. That's that's fantastic. I'm gonna fire off some, some questions, and, we'll we'll see where see where it goes. Great. What's one what's one thing that people misunderstand about you? 

Speaker 2

I think people think that I've always been, you know, really driven by money or success or a job, and, really, that's not the case. I was always driven by, I just wanna be okay. I wanna not ever be in a situation that if my husband died or left me or was disabled, that I couldn't take care of myself and my children. And so it really was just about being able to take care of of myself, and it led to so much more. And so, you know, now I I work and I do deals not because I need more money or want more money. I'm really not driven by the money. But what kind of impact and legacy now can I leave, because I don't wanna just sit on the beach and eat bonbons every day? Although that would be really enjoyable, it wouldn't really help me to live up to a greater purpose to give back to this world. And so today, I work and do deals because I can. I'm blessed to be able to do it, and I I see they're they're a bigger purpose for the rest of my life than just, you know, doing more deals or things that are gonna make me millions of dollars more. 

Speaker 0

Sure. Sure. I love it. It both things can be true at the same time. Money can be very important, and I believe it it is. Money and wealth, are very important and can be used in very positive or very negative ways. Yes. You know, and so it's I don't like that, unfortunately, some people bury their heads in the sand and they say, well, you know, money is not the not the answer. Well, it's pretty important to understand how money works and and it's but at the end of the day, it's not the end goal. It's not the end all be all. So you've been able to kinda keep that in perspective. So that's great. What's one of your biggest failures or something that you'd prefer to maybe have a do over on? 

Speaker 2

You know, in that ten years that I was really working hard to be able to be home with my kids, I was so laser focused on the goal, that I was not going to take my foot off the gas ever. I filled every waking possible moment with looking for deals, renovating deals, you know, becoming a better real estate investor. And I did all of that for my kids. I wanted to be home with my kids, but I missed out on a lot of opportunities to be more fully present with my kids, to take vacations, to take weekends off, to take breaks. And so, you know, I'm glad that everything worked out, but my biggest regret is that I didn't just say, you know, time with them. For example, my my nineteen year old who's now in college, he wants to do real estate full time, but for years, he hated it. He's like, I hated it. We missed birthdays. We missed events. We never went on vacation. I slept on grody apartment floors while you painted in the middle of the night. Like, it wasn't even though I thought, well, they're with me, I wasn't present, and it wasn't a great experience for them. 

Speaker 0

Sure. 

Speaker 2

So I I wish I had a do over for that. Took even if it took me another couple of years to retire. 

Speaker 0

Right. Right. And I can, you know, empathize it. Just any whether it's in real estate or not, just being an entrepreneur is it's it's very easy. No one's there to tell you to stop working. Right. And if 

Speaker 2

you work full time like you did before, you know, 

Speaker 0

know, I was working 

Speaker 2

full time and running my husband's business and doing real estate. It's easy to fill up, you know, your your entire day with just trying to create financial freedom. And and if you're not careful, you can become a slave to the pursuit of financial freedom, and that's not good either. 

Speaker 0

Yep. Absolutely. If you had to write another book this year, what would the topic be? 

Speaker 2

I'm actually working on one. 

Speaker 0

Well, there you go. 

Speaker 2

And it's really about creating life by design and for a greater purpose and just the resilience to never give up on creating the future that you hope for. 

Speaker 0

It's fantastic. Any idea when that will be will be out? 

Speaker 2

Hopefully, by the end of this year. 

Speaker 0

Awesome. 

Speaker 2

I've got work 

Speaker 0

to do. It's a yeah. I've never never written a book, but, I used to be in be an editor, and I know there is there's a lot behind the scenes that goes into that. So Yes. What's one thing in your business or, real estate investing that you just didn't expect? You know, surprise, good, bad, or or ugly. Otherwise, something that's really surprised you looking back. 

Speaker 2

Just how incredible the opportunities are out there to create wealth. Real estate really is the greatest wealth creator known to man, and it has been historically. And, you know, in the beginning, I was a little cynical that I could do it until I had enough money saved up to retire because we're told by our financial advisers and every, you know, thing that you read out there that the goal is to just set a little aside all the time. And, eventually, you know, when you're sixty five, you can enjoy life. I was really surprised that especially starting at the bottom at how quickly you really can create wealth even when you don't have a lot of money. It's not easy to do so. It's hard work. It takes a significant amount of time, but it is possible. And I was really surprised by that because at first, I just dabbled in real estate for years. I flipped a house thinking I would make a bunch of money because HGTV told me I could. Right? And it didn't work out so easily or the market crashed, and it didn't work out so easily. So although it's not easy or get rich quick, real estate, when I look back and say, wow. I was able to to go from negative net worth to eight figures in a decade. I'm really still surprised when I look back that, wow. I can't believe I was actually able to achieve that. 

Speaker 0

That's great. That's really good. So what, what's one thing that you're working on right now? What's what's a challenge you're facing in your in your business right now? 

Speaker 2

Oh, that's a really good question. You know, in this market, we're back to very similar conditions in terms of the credit and lending markets as we were post two thousand nine. So because there's rapid volatility and changes in the Fed's monetary policy and, basically, interest rates, and there's questions about how long it's gonna last. When will the Fed pivot? Will we have a deep recession? Will we have mass inflation? Banks are extremely nervous. And so what's that what that's doing is even if you're extremely creditworthy, have lots of assets and net worth and experience, they're offering very low loan to value loans today compared to where they were, you know, a year ago and really compared to where they've been since about two thousand twelve. So, you know, we are post, decade of easy monetary policy in an upward, upwardly mobile economy. And so, you know, we've had big apartment deals, both existing value add and development where lenders are issuing term sheets saying, yes. We can do seventy five percent LTV, and they call you back a week later and say, oh my goodness. Our board says pencils down. No more loans. Or we can only lend you forty five percent or fifty five percent. Despite the strength of us, despite the strength of the asset and and the location, the market really is really difficult to finance deals right now. And so that's a challenge. Sure. 

Speaker 0

And it's a lot a lot bigger challenge than, you know, when you were buying your first, you know, single family rental. Yes. You know? Because you there are a lot more moving parts and, partners and the whole equity stack and all that. And there's a lot going on there. So And 

Speaker 2

it it forces you again to get creative and say, okay. There's lots of money out there. And how do we structure a deal in a way that's gonna make the lender happy, private equity partners happy, private investors happy, and still generate good risk adjusted returns. So it forces us to always up our game when we have new challenges for sure. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. You mentioned the three three markets that you're focused on. Is there, can you speak to that a a little bit? Why why those three markets? 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. So one of the things that I've I've really learned over time is if you want a dependable business plan, you want dependable finances, You need to invest where the income is dependable. And the way that you do that is you make sure that you're in markets where jobs are plentiful, that all the people that are living in your apartment complexes, for example, or your single family home, If they lost a job tomorrow, they could find another job in their backyard without having to move or without having to go on assistance and not be able to pay you. So while I'm very philanthropic in terms of what I do with my money, I've learned to not cater to those that don't have enough money that are living check to check that sixty percent of them are not gonna be able to pay rent. Right? I've also lived through the pandemic, which we didn't even talk about with a couple thousand units having to figure out how do we deal with paying bills and contractors and mortgages if our tenants can't pay. So having gone through that, it's really important in terms of, you know, where you buy your investments that you're in cities that are pro growth, pro pro jobs, low taxes, good cost of living, great schools, low crime. All of those factors are really, really important. And primarily where we find that, I might be partial because I'm a Texan, but is in in Texas. And so I'm investing heavily in the Dallas Fort Worth market, Houston, Texas suburbs, some suburbs of Austin, but those are markets that are very pro growth and pro business and bring a ton of people. So people are leaving states like California and New York and New Jersey and Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, and they're moving to Texas and Florida and Georgia. Raleigh, North Carolina's a lot like Austin without all the homelessness, and it's still politically pretty conservative and landlord friendly. But there's a ton of high-tech, high paying jobs. It's a financial hub, and there's not enough, supply for all the people that are moving there. And that's a big factor is supply and demand. If you're investing in great areas, but it's been overbuilt and there's not a lot of demand or population growth, then you're gonna struggle with rents into a recession just like you would if you're, you know, in a class c, c minus type neighborhood. So those are the reasons that I invest in, you know, Raleigh, North Carolina, and Texas primarily. I've also owned a couple complexes in Atlanta, Georgia, and it has really strong fundamentals as well. 

Speaker 0

Got it. That's a very thorough answer. It's very good. Before we, talk about how our listeners can reach out to you, what's a what's a book or two besides your own that you could recommend for my audience? 

Speaker 2

Okay. So when it comes to economics, because that was one of my big lessons, I would really follow the principles for a changing world order by Ray Dalio. He's someone who thinks very big picture and and helps understand, what kind of shifts are happening in the world and in demographics, in order to help you understand how those things could impact your investing. Another one is, The End of the World is Just the Beginning by Zahn. It's a newer book that also really talks a lot about, demographic shifts. Another book two others that I'll recommend. One is more of a personal book, and it's called Life and Air. And it really talks about creating your life by design, living the life that you want today, not having to wait for the future to live it. Highly recommend that. And then in terms of, real estate investing, if you're a multifamily investor, there's a great book that's still one of my favorites. It's the only book I ever read before I started this path of this ten year journey to create wealth, and it was Dave Lindahl's multifamily millions. And to this day, it's it's a great reference book to just show you what's possible and how you can create, great wealth through multifamily investing. 

Speaker 0

That's fantastic. Yeah. You've, you've made this interview very easy for me. It's you're very well, well spoken, and we you've offered a ton of knowledge for the listener out there. And, again, thank you thank you for joining us. Congrats on all the success. I know it's been a ton of ton of work. For a listener who does wanna reach out to you, where can they find you online? 

Speaker 2

Great. So if you're an accredited investor and you're looking for passive real estate investments, you can find me at greater purpose capital dot com for opportunities there. And if you're looking for a coach or a mentor, to help you through various types of real estate investing, the things that I have experience with, you can find me on my website at rei mom dot com and send me a friend request on social media at Anna Kelly, rei mom. 

Speaker 0

Perfect. Yeah. That's really what it boils down to is active and passive. I found that in my own mortgage note business is, you know, so that's that's another strategic move on your part for sure. So to our listener out there, I highly recommend you follow Anna and reach out to her if if you're either either active or passive or just wanna learn more about multifamily syndications and and, all the, you know, the lessons that Anna has learned through her ups and downs along this journey. So, Anna, thank you so much again for joining us. Really appreciate your time. 

Speaker 2

You're so welcome. Thanks so much for having me. 

Speaker 0

And to our listener out there, we really appreciate your time, which is your most valuable asset. We appreciate you spending that resource with us. Please do like and share. Primarily share the show if you like this episode. If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. That goes a long way for us. Thanks, everyone. Take care. 

Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.