Episode Rerun: From Personal Pain to Paper Profits with Mortgage Note Investor Justin Bogard

Speaker 0

Hey, guys. In this episode, I sat down with Justin Bogard and got a chance to talk with him. He's a mortgage note investor like I am. He runs a note fund, and he focuses on seller financed notes. We talk a lot about, relationship challenges and a some personal, you know, family challenges and divorce that he's been through, which unfortunately is very relatable for a lot of people. And then we also talk about some, instances where he's lost a good bit of money in real estate transactions and the lessons he's learned from that. We talk about how he the discipline and other principles he's gathered from his background in athletics as well and talk about, you know, the importance of structure and, communication. With that said, we also discuss how he's never going back to what he refers to as w two jail. So I think, you know, because he puts this discipline and structure in place, he's that enables him to have freedom and go play golf when he wants to and go to his daughter's events when he wants to and that kind of thing. So it's a really, relatable episode. We talk a lot about family and work life balance and and, things that I think, you know, if you're on the the edge about becoming an entrepreneur or becoming an investor, specifically with regard to real estate and mortgage notes, this episode is one you're not gonna wanna miss. 

Speaker 1

From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. 

Speaker 0

Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Justin Bogard. Justin, how are you doing? 

Speaker 2

I'm doing awesome, Jamie. Thanks for having me on your show. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. Justin, you are one of the founders of American Note Buyers, among other things. I know, you and I have gotten to know each other a little bit better over the last couple years, and I'm really excited to dive in here. For the audience out there, for the listener, who are you, and why should we listen to you? 

Speaker 2

Right. So my name is Justin Bogart as as, Jamie pointed out. I am a real estate note investor. I cofounded, American Note Buyers with, my business partner, Richard Thornton. And so I run the operations of the business, and we manage a real estate fund. 

Speaker 0

Awesome. That's cool. So now just, obviously, you and I are somewhat in the same space, but basically in the same professional space. We have a little bit of a different approach to our how we run our business businesses. But, for the, listener out there who's unfamiliar with, you know, mortgage notes or how that works, what is what do you you know, what what is it that your business actually does in a little bit more detail? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So we specialize in what we call mom and pop seller finance notes. We we purchase them for the, the purpose of buying the performing cash flow, and then we end up, reselling those notes in, in volume later after we hold them for for a year or two. And that's the purpose for our fund right now. 

Speaker 0

Awesome. Perfect. I know we're gonna come back to that in a little bit and dive into your business and and, you know, the different types of, people you work with and who you serve and that kind of thing. Let's jump into your backstory, Justin. I know you've been through some some hard times, and and, obviously, this show is called from adversity to abundance. And, like, we briefly mentioned before we hit record, everyone's story is different, and everyone's version of adversity, everyone's, you know, picture of abundance is different, but that's what makes your story, unique, and that's why we wanna hear about it. So, where do you wanna start off? 

Speaker 2

Oh, we can start wherever. I I like to, when people work with me with investors that wanna invest in our fund or clients that want to purchase notes from us and kinda continue a long term relationship with them, they they kinda wanna know the the man that I am and the the characters that I have. And I I always root that back to my sports days, growing up. So Yeah. My dad, is still is a big sports fanatic. He loves sports, and he grew up with, nine other brothers and sisters. So he's a family of ten. His mom was a family of twelve. She's part of twelve siblings. So they they come from a very big family. So, this was he grew up in the fifties and sixties. So Mhmm. He had to share a bedroom, with a brother, one of his one or two of his brothers his whole life until he moved up to college. And then he finally, you know, got to be on his own. So he he always was playing sports. He was always doing things. He was very active in general. And, you know, still today, he he can't sit still. So when I was growing up, you know, I I'm the only boy in the family. I have two older sisters. Oldest one's about eight years older than me. And so I was always in sports, which which I wanted to do because, you know, I'm a kid. I want baseball. I wanna do soccer. I wanna do swimming, football, basketball, you know, all that stuff. So my dad would always push me to do that stuff and was always, you know, practicing with me and stuff. So I that became a big part of my life. And so as I got better in certain sports, in certain sports I didn't excel in, it happened to be swimming was the best sport that I excelled in. So I ended up doing that kinda year round. And and and as I got better, I had, you know, different coaches and was pushed different ways, and that kinda developed me into a very having structured environment. And then also not having time to do anything else. As you know, Jamie, you play up lacrosse and stuff. 

Speaker 0

Yep. Absolutely. 

Speaker 2

So I I was always driven that way. I I ended up, being in the Indiana state finals my senior year for, swimming. And so I we had a medley relay team and I was in an individual's, event, a hundred meter hundred yard brushstroke. Excuse me. And so that that was kind of my biggest achievement. I ended up going to college because of it, getting a scholarship. 

Speaker 0

Nice. I used to 

Speaker 2

go to college and I swam in the junior college, national championships for two years in a row. Qualified for the US Open in the two hundred yard breaststroke, nineteen ninety nine. Wow. Didn't go to the US Open, but I did qualify for it. I kinda reached the pinnacle of where I could. I actually qualified by one one hundredth of a second. So it's just like, you know, the the length of a of a the thickness of a hair, you know, is how I would describe it as how I got that cut. But, I I just with all the training, those of you that are athletes, you kinda understand what you have to go through with your body mentally. 

Speaker 0

Definitely. 

Speaker 2

Mentally, your body physically, obviously, have to go through. So that's kinda where my discipline, my strive, my determination, my my never really quit attitude, never never give up attitude. It kinda derives from that. 

Speaker 0

No. I love it. And, I mean, I I come from a big family myself, and we were all athletes. And, you know, I can relate on many levels. You know, I think team sports and individual sports obviously teach slightly different lessons, but I think just there's so much you can draw from sports in general and just so many life lessons I I think are, you know, very applicable. My my daughter through her school is she has to pick it after school activity and tends to be sports. And I you know, she's not gonna be a professional athlete Yeah. Most likely. Right? That's okay. I think, there's so much you can apply from sports. I love it. And like you alluded to, the the the discipline, not just I mean, just the structure of, you know, I I just think when you're not involved in a sport where you're working toward a goal and training and focused on accomplishing something, you just tend to people tend to drift and not do as well academically or whatever else. And, of course, a lot of these lessons you can learn from other, you know, things outside of sports, but I think sports naturally lend themselves to teach these act these, lessons. So okay. So you did the junior college swimming thing and, you know, in in a very impressive way, and then, and then what happened? 

Speaker 2

So I ended up doing another year. Junior college is only for two years for for those of you that don't know that. And so I did another year at, our Indianapolis College, IUPUI, studying for computer science and math. And I ended up not graduating on purpose. I actually quit quit college, and I ended up working for a temp agency that kinda put me in a job opportunity for working for, a printing company of all places. So I I figured out how to use my computer skills to help that company out and ended up managing to being their database manager and IT type of manager. And so I just kinda went from there to another mail company slash print company and then went to another mail slash print company and kinda built myself up in middle management. So I got a lot of training and skills on how to be a manager and then also how to, you know, be heavily involved in in the data data mining of of those companies. 

Speaker 0

Now what did you did you choose I mean, why did you choose computer science? Was it you were good at it, or you thought it would be you know, could find a high paying job or a combination? 

Speaker 2

All all the above, really. Yeah. At the time see, I graduated high school in nineteen ninety seven. So I was in college from, you know, ninety eight to two thousand, two thousand one. And at the time, you know, the the dot com bubble was out there. And so having an online presence, using computer skills, getting certain programming languages was a big push because the whole world was starting to really understand that, you know, computer science is really the future 

Speaker 0

of 

Speaker 2

what we need for software and hardware. So all that stuff interests me, probably more hardware than software. 

Speaker 0

Okay. Well, 

Speaker 2

I actually ended up doing some electrical engineering, classes as well. And so all that stuff kinda interests me. I'm I'm a very hands on type of person. I I don't like to read instructions, surprise, surprise, being a man. Right? Right. But I do like to reverse engineer how things work, and I do like to look at a problem and solve it on my own. I that that challenge is very, relaxing to me, if if you can if you can say that. Sure. I I like that. So, like, when my mom would buy things for, she had a a small beauty salon, so she would buy, like, certain chairs or certain equipment. She would ask me to put them together. Like, I would just like to put it together. I learned how to work on cars, like, by myself just reading, you know, magazines and books and stuff. Mhmm. All those things just interest me being being mechanically minded like that. And so that was the computer science part was obviously a lot less physical work. So it was just, you know, using a keyboard in your mind. Yeah. That that's really what interests me in computer science. 

Speaker 0

Makes sense. Alright. So and then why did you quit college? Is that was it just not going well, or was that it more of an intentional decision that you didn't didn't wanna go that route? 

Speaker 2

Both. So I I didn't do well in school and in college. I didn't get very good grades. I was probably more or less a c b student in high school and in college. I I did put forth the best effort that I could with having a full swimming schedule as well, and it was very difficult. Not asking for anybody's pity for that, but it was difficult because 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

I never been pushed in school before. So I found out very quickly that I just wasn't built well to take tests and wasn't built well to be in a classroom environment like that per se. Sure. So I needed to learn things on my own and be a lot more visual. Yeah. So I decided that I wanted to get into the workforce and and use what I know to start getting a job instead of going through school again. It was just, it was like, how do I describe it, nails on a chalkboard for me to be in school. So I I I don't say that for anyone listening to not go to school if anybody else is listening on this podcast. I just say that because it just didn't work for me. It didn't fit me. Yeah. I'm not gonna push my kids to go to school if they don't want to as far as That 

Speaker 0

was my next question, actually. I know you have kids and, you know, what's your what's your advice to your your kids about college? 

Speaker 2

So I've talked my daughters are nine and eleven right now, and they they are I'm not sure if I told them I didn't finish college or not. I think I might have told the oldest one, but I've already told them that they they choose what they wanna do as far as what they wanna be when they grow up. And it doesn't have to involve college, and it can if you want. But it's not it's not a big push for me, and they know that coming from me and and from their mom too. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Got it. I think you were just cutting edge. I mean, now it seems like college might be, not as necessary. So we'll just say that you you are a trendsetter. 

Speaker 2

Well, I'll I'll I'll just say this not to digress too much, but specialty seminars are really, like, master's degree in your in your craft. Mhmm. So what we do, Jamie, if if we were to take, certain mentorship programs, like, out out of high school or after a few years of college, it would it would have benefited us greatly to what we are today. We probably could have fast tracked, you know, ten ten eight to ten years of our life just by going through specialty, note note training or real estate training, right out of college or right out of high school as opposed to going to college just to get, you know, a a general education with a specific minor. 

Speaker 0

For sure. No. I I've talked before about how I had I ended up working for a title company. I Yeah. Realized how little I knew about any of that's what Yeah. What's how what's the settlement statement? What is title insurance? You know? Still don't understand that. Well, yeah, that's that's a good point. But, you know, it's pretty important to understand at least how, you know, these transactions work, but certainly not something I learned in school. But, so, yeah, let's fast forward a little bit. I mean, obviously, the we're gonna hit on some of the, the adversity. I know you I know you what you've talked about is already you know, we've been through challenges up to, you know, what we've talked about already, but let's kind of focus on some of the more serious, adversity that you ended up facing. 

Speaker 2

So what I talked about so far is not real world problem stuff. It's not it's not even a problem in anyone else's eyes. I I was pretty fortunate. I I have a mom and dad that worked, one one to two jobs, and they worked all the time, and they provided for us. We had a nice home. We we always had clothes on our backs, and we had food in our belly, so we're very grateful for that opportunity. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. They 

Speaker 2

pushed us in sports. They pushed us in school and stuff. So, you know, that part of it, I def definitely no no adversity there. Just just my own, trying trying to get through life, you know, the sort of normal way. So, I end up getting married probably in my early thirties, I think, to my to my first wife. And so then we had a kid shortly after that. So, obviously, you know, my daughter's eleven, so it was about twelve years ago when I when I first got married fast forward from from today. And so that that marriage didn't, last very long. I think we were married for about four or five years. And it was I thought I married my best friend, and it didn't turn out to be that way. There was a lot of, you know, problems with with relationships is not success that I've had 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Just just as just as an individual in relationships. So, lo and behold, I find out that, you know, there's a lot of drinking involved. You know, she was drinking a lot, and she ended up, cheating on me as well 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. A 

Speaker 2

couple of times. So it was pretty devastating to find that out because it's just like, you know, you got hit in the face all of a sudden. You're just like, where where did this come from? Like, who Who's this person? Like, yes. You weren't that person yesterday. Like, what what's going on? So, you know, we we did go through counseling and stuff to try to work through some of our stuff, and that's kinda how all this this bled out. So that was about a a year and a half to two years worth of of dealing with this, this person's you know, the uncertainty of understanding, like, what what's going on with you? Are you okay? You know, why are you doing this? And, it was just things that I would I just didn't notice when I was, when we were together and we got married. And so that was kind of a a huge that's probably been the biggest, adversity I had to come over my life was just understanding why that happened. And 

Speaker 0

Sure. No. I appreciate you Yeah. Sharing. It's not a it's not always, you know, necessarily how you wanna spend your days, you know, talk about your your divorce and all this. 

Speaker 2

But I've never openly talked about that over over the air. Like, I those of you that don't know me, I have my own podcast, and I have my own most live monthly broadcast that I've done for 

Speaker 0

the 

Speaker 2

past five or six years, and I I don't openly talk about my problems or or do anything on Facebook like that. 

Speaker 0

But Yeah. 

Speaker 2

But, yeah, it it affected me in a way that I I can't I can't describe unless you've gone through it because I just started a business. 

Speaker 0

You had just started a job? Uh-huh. Yeah. About a year. A little bit, you know, we don't have to drill down on the the stuff you've already mentioned, but give us a little more context as far as Yeah. You had one child together, at that point? Or 

Speaker 2

We actually had both of our kids at that point. 

Speaker 0

Okay. Okay. Got it. 

Speaker 2

Like Makes sense. 

Speaker 0

The girls were, Yeah. That makes sense. 

Speaker 2

They were four years old and two years old. 

Speaker 0

Okay. So you had two two girls together, and then, and you had just started a business, you said? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So she she had went out on her own first and decided to be kind of a, what I call, print broker. So she would work with different clients that would need printing material done, like, in the large magazines and stuff like that. So, we I kinda helped her with that on the side. And so while she was building her her business, I was still working a w two job. And then once she had enough money to to support, you know, that part of the income, I just wanna be in real estate. And so I, saw all these HGTV people at the time. That's when the Property Brothers and Fix and Slipper were very hot, very, very new. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And so I wanna be just like them, and I thought I could do it. And lo and behold, there was a a team that came into town that was promoting, Tarek and Christina El Moussa at the time. 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

And so I went to that seminar, and then I bought into another seminar, and it led me to another seminar and, you know, paid a bunch of money for that stuff. And and then took, just got my, like, cut cut my teeth in real estate, I guess Mhmm. From there. And then I I figured out how to do it. I, I quit quit my job and just wanted to focus on that full time and then just kinda just my back was against the wall, and I just had to figure it out. So I I hadn't gotten divorced or had those issues with my wife just yet at that point, but 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

That's kind of how I 

Speaker 0

started in real estate. Sure. So and was was, as far as your decision because our listener, you know, may may have a w two, may have a a side hustle, may be thinking about quitting or, you know, at that time, was did you get your your wife on board with you, quitting your w two? What was that transition like, from w two to entrepreneur entrepreneur? 

Speaker 2

It it was pretty easy transition. The company that I worked for was very understanding and and very supportive, for me to try to go out on my own. They they knew I was very driven. I I was good at what I do. I I didn't leave them high and dry by any means. I stayed on for a couple of months to kinda transition out. So I cut back my hours, you know, each month. And each month, I would add hours to my real estate business as I was learning and reading more and and getting more training and spending more money and figuring this stuff out on my own. So that transition was kinda nice. 

Speaker 0

I'm 

Speaker 2

not saying it was easy. It was just nice because everybody understood from all facets from my wife to the company that I worked for. So that that was a nice positive reinforcement there. 

Speaker 0

Got it. Yeah. Sounds a little bit like like mine. I took my time, and I went part time for seven years and, was building my real estate, you know, business on the side and then eventually quit, in March of last year. But, so okay. So then the divorce and and and, you know, I say this a lot on the show, but it's it's a kind of the, necessary evil as far as the risk we run with with the show or I run as far as just glossing over people's pain and adversity. And, you know, I know you mentioned that was a year and a half to two years of kind of dealing with that, and that that's not none of that was easy. And I know I know there was a lot that, you know, we're glossing over, but, talk to us about kind of from that, I guess, after that two year period was up or, you know, what what happened, after the kind of that transition took place. 

Speaker 2

Well, just everything kinda started falling apart. So I, took on a not a business partner, but kind of a a project construction manager partner, if you will, a non equity partner. Okay. So I would be the expert at financing and finding the deals and just just underwriting the project in general with with a direction of where we wanted to go with with fix and flipping and and wholesaling. Okay. And the the construction manager was someone that I trusted and was my friend, and they were supposed to manage the project, get the people in, and get the work done. So we we worked pretty well together for the most part, but, they just didn't have the same drive and tenacity that that I did. So there was a lot of things that were just going a little bit slower paced and a lot of you know, a few mistakes that were happening, and it was just constantly, like, revolving door of contractors coming in and out as far as, like, they didn't do it right. We have to redo their work and pay for pay for more stuff. 

Speaker 0

So What year was this? 

Speaker 2

This was around two thousand fifteen, two thousand sixteen. 

Speaker 0

Got it. Okay. So When you could still find deals. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So so we could find deals and start working on them. So I I you know, we do a couple projects at a time. It isn't too many because this these were my first couple of deals. And Sure. So that that was, like, right when the bad stuff started happening with, finding out about the adultery and, the drinking I knew about for a year or two, and that wasn't the worst part about it. It was, the adultery. Yeah. 

Speaker 0

I can't imagine. I mean, it's just yeah. That would just 

Speaker 2

yeah. It's Yeah. It's like someone else living a second life and right in front of you, and you don't even know what's happening. It's just like, I I don't at first, you don't believe it. You're just like, how is that possible? Like, I I'm around you all the time. Like, how how physically do you have time to do to do any of this stuff? You know? 

Speaker 0

Sure. Yeah. And and then just I imagine it just yeah. It rocks you to your core. I mean, it's just, 

Speaker 2

Yeah. 

Speaker 0

So what goes through your mind as far as, you know, you know, what's what's going through your mind at that time? As as you're progressing through that that hard couple of years, what's what's happening internally and and with your mindset? 

Speaker 2

You know, it's kinda like I would describe it as, you know, like, the steps to alcoholism, like, being an alcoholic and going through Alcoholics Anonymous. I would I would take it to that extent as far as, like, at first, you're just you're just unaware that that this is happening. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. And 

Speaker 2

then you finally have to come to realization that it happened, and there's not anything to do about it. But you need to accept it, and then you need to start figuring out how to go forward. Mhmm. But the main thing I was concerned with was kids. I'm very Yeah. Close to my kids. I care deeply about my children, and I wanna be the best father that I can to them. And I I am more concerned at this point. I'm I'm siloing my feelings and putting to the side, which isn't a good thing. But I did that because I wanted my kids to be reassured that, you know, daddy's okay, mommy's okay. It's just we're gonna be living in two different houses, you know, that they're very young. They they didn't react in a negative way. They just looked at it as, oh, this is cool. I'm getting two Christmases now. I'm getting two birthdays now. They're like, 

Speaker 0

oh, yeah. 

Speaker 2

You know, they're they're spinning the fun out of it, you know, spinning it to the positive. Yeah. But so that that was kind of my first priority is how do I take care of them? Second priority, how do I make sure I get money coming in the door? Sure. My third priority is how how do I how do I accept what happened, and how how do I move forward from this, and how do I learn from these these challenges? So it was it wasn't easy at all. You know? You have 

Speaker 0

to go through 

Speaker 2

counseling and and figure out what to do. And then, you know, on top of that, mistakes are happening with being a first time entrepreneur and and trying to figure out this real estate game on how to do things and how to trust people and how to how to vet deals and vet people and and just knowing how to run a business. It was, Jamie, I made all the mistakes in the world, and I lost a crap ton of money too. I lost sixty thousand dollars on one flip. 

Speaker 0

Wow. That is a lot. I mean, it's a lot when you I mean, I think for anyone. Right? But especially when you're going through a divorce and I mean, 

Speaker 2

My my mind probably wasn't right. At the time, I thought I was sharp, and I knew what I was doing. But before I knew it, people were making mistakes. We were to market too early. I was you know, I I I don't know I don't know what happened. I I can look back now and point fingers, but at the end of the day, the the person that is the problem is the person that's talking on the microphone right now. 

Speaker 0

No. I appreciate you being vulnerable and honest, and that's, you know, it's that that's what I'm trying to get at with this show is it's it's all it's easy to think that it's all rainbows and unicorns, and Justin Bogart's this entrepreneur who's just got it made and was handed everything. And No. It's not like that. And, I appreciate you sharing. But so what if you looking back on and I know we haven't finished the rest of the story yet, but just kind of 

Speaker 2

Up to 

Speaker 0

that point. Yeah. There's more. 

Speaker 2

There's more. But up to that point 

Speaker 0

with both the the family hardships and the business and, technically, not partnership, but, you know, business hardships or, you know, relationships there. What have you learned at this point? You know, looking back, what did you learned up up at that, till that point? Any lessons you could pull out? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. There's there's a lot of lessons. You know, at at first, as far as a relationship goes, I need to be more open with my feelings. I didn't need to wear my heart on my sleeve a little bit more. So at least the other person knows where I'm at, and the person knows my values and how I feel and what what I think. 

Speaker 0

Sure. 

Speaker 2

And then also I need to I need to make sure that they reciprocate that as well and make sure the communication is a two way street and and not very closed off. And I think that was a a big major problem with my first first marriage 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Was that the communication just wasn't open. It was always assumed that the other party was happy because I didn't know otherwise, but we didn't also talk about it either. So Mhmm. There's there isn't blame, a hundred percent blame on her side. You know, there's there's blame on my side as well. And so that's what I learned from my first marriage is is the communication really is the open door. And and like what you said, Jamie, no matter what you see on people's Facebook posts, all this happy, you know, rainbows and sunshine stuff, it isn't reality at all. Right. It's a facade of what's really going on. Not saying every every happy person on Facebook is actually depressed and sad and everything's horrible on their side. 

Speaker 0

It's just Right. 

Speaker 2

It's they're not showing you the full gambit of the picture of the story. 

Speaker 0

Right. 

Speaker 2

They're you're just seeing the highlight reel. Right? 

Speaker 0

Yeah. And and and the truth is and I you know, I've talked about this with my wife. It's like, you know, people only put their their vacation pictures. Yeah. But I kinda like seeing their vacation pictures. Like Well, I did that too. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Exactly. I don't wanna necessarily always dive into people's problems all day. I'm going on social media to, you know, to have a nice positive break. So we're not saying it's necessarily a bad thing that people are doing that, but just understand that that what what they're posting is it it can get if you take that as twenty four seven, this is what their life is always like. That's just not not the truth. Yeah. It's yep. 

Speaker 2

Go ahead. Everybody has their own struggles. Everybody has their own life problems, and and it all sucks. But there's also a positive to it. There's also highs, and there's also lows. And we all go through it. And I expect that to happen in the future. Yeah. And by all means, I feel like I've had, you know, in my experience and walking a mile in my shoes, I I've had some hard times, but but they're not probably anything like somebody else's hard times to where maybe they they've lost a loved one or something very, very traumatic has happened to them. I don't wanna compare myself to a situation like that. But I have gone through hard times, and and, I know that it's made me stronger. And I've and I had to learn from those hard times in order to get back, you know, to the to the positive direction. So 

Speaker 0

Yeah. So and on the small business side or the real estate investing side, what was, anything, was communication also the lesson there? What was the the lesson you could take from from that? 

Speaker 2

It's it's really it's the real estate knowing how to flip a house or knowing how to wholesale, it's not that complicated. Knowing how to buy a note or invest a note, it's not that complicated. It isn't rocket science. Yeah. But that's one small part of it. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So when you're on your own, you either do this as a part time thing or you do this as a full time thing. I chose to do it as a full time thing. I had I had only my own money to back me, and I didn't ask for any help or any money from my family. And I don't know if they would have gave it to me, but I didn't ask for it because I didn't want that. That's not the type of person I am. I don't I don't want a handout. I wanna learn the hard way because I'm hard headed. And so so I I did that on my own. So when I lost all that money, I was negative. My my my worth was in in the hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars negative. Wow. So it was devastating. 

Speaker 0

So and at the just to, with the family side of things, when you were one to two hundred thousand dollars negative, whatever it was exactly, but when you were had no money, what was going on on the was that as you're going through the divorce, or what was the timing of everything? How did that line up with the the family side of things? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So when I found out about, the the adultery stuff, I I knew the relationship was over and that, at least, that was a known fact going forward. 

Speaker 0

And 

Speaker 2

that that just going through the divorce, separating the assets, and all that stuff was actually easy to do Mhmm. Because there was no disagreement from either side on stuff. We didn't make it. Well, I should say I didn't make it, difficult for the other other person, for my ex. Sure. I I just said, what's the point? Yeah. What's the point? I I could I could dislike them. I could say I loathe them. I could say I hate them. I I could try to spite them. I could try to put things back in their face and be, you know, passive aggressive. But at the end of the day, who cares? 

Speaker 0

Yeah. You 

Speaker 2

know, who really cares? What good is that gonna do me by being vindictive? And so that's just not the person that I am. So I I just move on. I just be the best co parent that I can with them. You know? Sure. To this day, we we still communicate pretty well, and there's no, like, friction or problem between us. We just I just kinda said what I said, you know, while we were getting divorced, and it just says what it is. There's nothing I can do about it to change the past. 

Speaker 0

So then the the business hardships, how did timing wise, how did that coincide with the 

Speaker 2

divorce? It kinda it was the perfect storm. It it all happened kind of at the same time. And there's a saying that you hear when it rains, it pours, and and I relate to that in a lot of times in my life. I know when something bad happens and a couple other things bad happen, like, the rest of it's gonna come down, so just expect it to come down. It doesn't seem that bad. Right? You know what's gonna happen? You know someone's gonna rip off the Band Aid, at least you know and supposed to being surprised about it. Yeah. Take a 

Speaker 0

look at that. The, I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to our mutual friend, Chris Seventy's, episode on my show. It was episode three. So we're going back about a year. But Yeah. He went through there was a two or three month period where it was a divorce and about two hundred fifty thousand dollars in debt, if I recall correctly. And then he also had a major health scare. Yeah. And so, again, you get into this comparison game, and that's not the point. Yeah. It's just, in a lot of ways, you know, he went through a similar similar type story where just like you said, when it rains, it pours, and, he ended up moving geographically and kind of restarting. So how did you Yeah. How did you refocus? How did you rebuild at that point? 

Speaker 2

What's kinda the same way you describe Chris's story? I that's that's kinda how I think. I just like a computer, I just wanna reboot. You wanna push a button to set reset. Okay. Wipe the memory clean. You know, nothing happened in the past. I'm I'm like a goldfish. Right? Got ten second memory. Ted Lasso. Right? Right. Ten second memories. And just reset and move forward. You you can you need you can express your emotions and express your feelings is what I've learned, and it's okay to do that, and you should do that. But at the same time, you just need to acknowledge your feelings and you need to move forward. And so I lost a bunch of money, you know, whoop dee doo, poor Justin. Right? But how do you get it back? How do you move forward? How do you not make that mistake again? Are you gonna just give up because you lost a bunch of money? Has anyone else done that? Well, yeah. Lots of people have lost money before. Lots of people Sure. Made mistakes. And, I I just I know that I don't wanna go back to a w two job. I just consider that jail for me. I don't wanna go 

Speaker 0

to jail. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I don't wanna do it. There's been many times, and and I've lost money again on deals, not not too far from the timeline where we're at right now and where I lost it all again. Right? I get it back and I lost it all again. You just I I I refuse to give up this life of being an entrepreneur and being a business owner, and I I won't I won't back down no matter how many times I get knocked down. 

Speaker 0

I love it. That's great. So just looking back on the times you've lost money as in specific deals, and I I think you would agree it's it's almost unavoidable if you do enough deals. And, you know, you can't you can't approach business or or investing with the, from the standpoint of there's no risk or anything like that. There's always risk. But what would you do differently from maybe an individual deal standpoint? Or, how have you adjusted your business model, you know, going forward to avoid a a big loss like that? 

Speaker 2

Well, I feel really comfortable now when I look at a deal and I underwrite it because I know the expenses in my head now that I've experienced going through a deal forwards and backwards and doing it many times. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So I understand what it costs to go into it. I understand what can go wrong, and I know what's gonna happen. I hate not knowing what you don't know. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And so because now I know what's gonna happen, anything minor that pops up really isn't a big deal. I know it's not a major thing. Sure. Going forward, I I definitely have a lot of experience. And then I also have people that I can lean on very heavily. You know, I have have you. I have Chris. I have, you know, Richard. I have, you know, my mentors that got me into the note business. Yeah. I have all those people I can lean on when I have those challenges. So so I I would, and until this point, I don't have to lean on people too often anymore unless I come across a really unique situation that I just don't know. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

But I have that luxury today of passing on that knowledge now to the next person. And so that's 

Speaker 0

I love it. 

Speaker 2

A lot of what we do today is is more, not training per se, but more just educational. Just say, hey. Learn from our experiences. And Sure. We can tell you when you're doing this type of deal, I know I I pretty much know what's gonna happen with this deal. You know? I can always say this borrower's thinking. I I know I know they're lying. I know I know I know what's going on. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Deal. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. That's, that's good. It's yeah. And you get sometimes these because there's so many coaches and trainers out there now. Sometimes, those of us who do this in any capacity, because I do mentorship, you know, on a one on one basis as well. And, it's some some of us get a bad rap because, you know, these because there are some shady coaches 

Speaker 2

out there. Bad actors out there. That's for sure. 

Speaker 0

For sure. And, you know, people who just should not be advising others, for sure. But but you reach a point where it's like, well, why would you not if you have all this experience, why would you not give back? But and and it there's value in that for other people. So they should be paying you for that if, you know, that's that's that's a that's a a good thing. But question on the, you know, so you mentioned your your business partner, Richard. How did you get comfortable enough to partnering with Richard, and what do you look for when you're working with people, professionally at this point? 

Speaker 2

Yes. So so, again, it's it's like losing money on a deal and then trying to to pick up the pieces and move forward. It's the same thing with a business partner or someone that that you want to work with on a on a team. Mhmm. You're gonna go through people. You're gonna go through employees. It's just until you find the right assistant, you know, virtual assistant or or helper 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

You're not gonna find the right one until until you do. And so you may Sure. You may go through several and just like vendors, you're gonna go through several vendors or contractors until you find the right one that works for you. So it's it's sniffing out what what is it that I'm looking for, and then how does that person, replicate that, or how do they complement what I do well? Sure. I know what I do well. I know what Richard Thornton does well. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And so together, we we have a business marriage, very well because there are things that he does that I just don't wanna do and I don't do well to begin with. There's things that I do really well that he he just, you know, throws up his hands and says, I I that's not me. I don't wanna do it. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. And I've and like I said, we've I've gotten to know you guys a little bit better, and it seems like you worked very well together. So before I jump, I do have some more rapid fire questions. But before I get to those, what's talk about your business today. What does that look like? You you have a fund. What does that mean? What what what's your business look like today? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So today, we're doing the same thing that that we're doing the past, six or seven years, which is just buying seller finance paper. We we find the people that create seller financing or do owner financing on their properties, and then we buy that paper from them. And so with the fund, now we have a bigger bank that we can work from instead of using our own capital because 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Rich and I decided, hey. Let's use our own money. And then we realized after after, you know, ten, fourteen deals, we don't have any more money. So we get more money there, but we should be doing a fund. We didn't know we were gonna have this much opportunity to buy stuff. We didn't know we were gonna do this well this quickly. And so we just said, stop. We we need a solution quickly, and we said, let's start a fund. So we said we're gonna do a ten million dollar fund. We're gonna do a family and friends fund. Yep. That's what we call it, five zero six b, fully regulated and, you know, had an attorney draft all the paperwork. And so, we have investors now that are investing in our fund where it's gonna be a ten year fund, and we only have, we're planning on after the first couple years to do the next iteration of that fund to make it larger and more robust. 

Speaker 0

And 

Speaker 2

so that's kind of our game plan. Our stepping stone is to get to three funds. And so the the first one is already in place in motion and already active, and the second one, about two years from now, will probably introduce the second. 

Speaker 0

Nice. Well, I mean, a couple things I'll add on. One is you have the real estate background from, you know, fix and flipping and wholesaling and, construction. And, I mean, that only helps, when because we do see you know, as you know, people can you can be successful as a note investor coming from the engineering side of things or coming from finance or the mortgage side of things or coming from the real estate or real estate investing niche. It's kind of a there's not a one size fits all, avatar of who's gonna be successful in as a mortgage note investor. But, personally, I think if if I had to give any I mean, I think just having that real estate background is huge because what happens if your borrower goes, nonperform your note goes nonperforming, they stop paying? Well, you you can evaluate that property, what to do with it, and you have that experience. So I think that only helps. Secondly, I think it it just makes sense as far as the fund. I mean, you this business comes down to three things. It's raising raising it's it's finding deals, which it sounds like you and Richard have a pretty good niche as far as, finding, you know, access to to notes themselves, seller finance paper. And the other piece is managing those assets, which I know you do a good job of because, we use have used the same, platform, and we've you and I have talked about that. And and then thirdly, like you said, it doesn't matter if you and Richard have ten million dollars between the two of you. You're gonna run out of your own capital if if you're scaling. I mean, you know, it doesn't really matter. So you've gotta find access to capital. So it sounds like you've found a way to solve all three of those problems. I know it's always a work in progress. Yeah. 

Speaker 2

I wouldn't say solve the problem, but I'd say definitely in work on. Yeah. Well, we're definitely trending in the right direction that, you know, know, OPM, other people's money is a key to anybody's anybody's real estate business. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. Yeah. That makes sense. So and then you have an educational side, and I know you have we'll we'll talk in a little bit about how people can can reach out to you. But I've got a few, rapid fire questions here for you. Yeah. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? 

Speaker 2

Wow. That's a good one. I I think I think it's my discipline and my tenacity. They they don't. They don't. I think that's part of it. The other the other thing I think people and and I don't know this. This is just my assumption, just my my view on how other people might view me or or not take advantage of of of what I I know and my experience 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Is that I don't feel like a lot of people listen to my advice. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And I I wish that they would at least consider it or at least seriously think about the fact that I've been through that before or I I I can sense what's going on with this or, you know, you should do things this way. And it kinda bothers me a little bit, but I'm just you know, I understand from their point of view, you know, who am I? They don't know me yet. Right? They don't know my story or my background. Maybe after this episode, they will. Yeah. 

Speaker 0

There you can. We're we're gonna fix that problem right here, right now. 

Speaker 2

But I say, yeah, that that's that's the biggest thing I noticed. I don't think people follow my my advice very well. I I feel like I give really good advice, Jamie, and I don't charge for it. 

Speaker 0

Maybe that's the problem you're gonna charge for it. Problem. No. That's good. I mean, it's it's I I can, you know, I can relate on some level. But, you know, a lot of times, it's just timing and and how how the message is structured and but it's you know, you can't you can't force it. What's one of your biggest, you know, regrets or failures that that we haven't talked about? Anything that you can point to that you'd like a do over with? 

Speaker 2

Man, there's a lot of things I'd like a do over with. 

Speaker 0

But at 

Speaker 2

the same time, I'll talk about the other side of my mouth and say I wouldn't be here and know what I know today if I didn't go through what I went through. Sure. Going through the divorce, losing losing a lot of money, not knowing if I'm gonna be able to afford to to buy my kids food. It's just there was times in my life to where it's just like, my god. Like, is it really this bleak? And then I would read about, you know, other entrepreneurs and other CEOs. It's like they all go through it. They all lost money. They've all gone through terrible stuff, very stressful things. Like, if you can't stomach this stuff, don't be an entrepreneur. 

Speaker 0

No. Absolutely. 

Speaker 2

I didn't know the stuff either. I I I wish I would have had better mentorship or known who to trust early on. I think I woulda had a lot less struggles. I still woulda struggled. Don't don't get me wrong. Sure. This wouldn't have been there is no perfect road. There is no perfect way to hold somebody's hand. It's just, it's too difficult to teach being a business owner in a class. You just have to get your hands dirty and just just hope and pray. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. There's some principles you can, you know, fall back on, but your business looks different than my business. So we're gonna have different different struggles and you know? Yeah. So speaking of that, though, if you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would it be? 

Speaker 2

I would say understand money. Understand financing very quickly. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. I love that. It's It's really good. Yeah. That's a tough one too because it's, you know, we say we should educate, and I fully agree it's critical, right, to to educate the younger generation on personal finance and investing. Getting their buy in is the hard part sometimes, but, I'll just leave that there. If you could go back and have have a coffee or or a drink or, you know, spend have a conversation with any historical figure, who would who would you choose? 

Speaker 2

Any historical figure? Oh my gosh. 

Speaker 0

They could still be alive today. Is there anybody you'd like to, you know, pick their brain for for half an hour? 

Speaker 2

Man, I I mean, not nothing jumps out on paper, but I would I would probably pick somebody that that has just, been through just a lot of life challenges and just understand where their mind was, where they were going through, you know, how they move forward. I I I don't like like I said, I can't picture who that would be off top of my head, but it would be someone, And it may not be somebody famous. May not it just may be somebody close to me that I know that I would look up to and be like, I wanna be like that person. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? 

Speaker 2

Invest in a fund. I I would I would definitely not spend it. I would, probably pay off some debt that's been bothering me, And then I would probably make sure that I set up very, strong portfolio that would just keep constant cash flow coming in. 

Speaker 0

Nice. 

Speaker 2

And build off that. I I always try to live beneath my means or just just right at my means and not not overspend. So I don't I don't have fan fancy stuff. So I just want to set up for the future. I'm used to not having fancy things, so I don't wanna start having it and be spoiled. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Absolutely. How about a a a book that you could recommend, a book or two that's, either in in, you know, about life or entrepreneurship or investing, any of those topics? Anything come to mind? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. There's there's a few books that I've read. The titles are escaping me. And, obviously, Rich Dad Poor Dad is is probably the number one book that you just have to read when you get into real estate. Just it does a great job of setting the table of understanding why why nine out of ten million years are in real estate, to understanding financials, understanding about hard assets, and understanding leveraging. Like, all all those techniques are great precursor to to what you can be. But I also read a lot of just, sometimes I read just odd books that have nothing to do with life, nothing to do with, bettering yourself as far as being a business person. Sure. So I sometimes I read some occult or esoteric type of books just for for the story of it or just understanding that this might have happened in our past. And that kind of, I guess, I'll say excites, but I guess it it it it answers a lot of questions for me about, you know, how how do we get fast forward to two thousand twenty three from, you know, year zero when Price was born? Like, what how how do we get to here? You know? And how are things moving slow, then all of a sudden there was a explosion of, you know, industrialism and stuff. So it's just that stuff fascinates me just to understand. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like you have that analytical mind and you like to deconstruct things and just 

Speaker 2

kind of Yeah. 

Speaker 0

Understand things from that standpoint. So what's one thing in your business that you a problem that you're dealing with right now on the business side? 

Speaker 2

The biggest problem that we have, I think, is very similar to any any business today, and that's knowing how to market. Mhmm. So knowing how to market, meaning we we have to like you said, we have to raise capital. So we're looking for individuals with private money. Number two, we we have to find inventory. So that that's two of our legs of our three leg stands here. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. And so marketing to those two different verticals is always a challenge because it's it's an ever moving target. And it isn't the old ways before a lot of social media and technology where you just send out mail or put things in the newspaper because everyone is reading those things. Well, now everyone's reading a multitude of different type of sources. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And it's how do you spend your money and where you spend your money. So it's very difficult to figure out, like you said in the beginning, your avatar of who who your customer is or who your client is and understanding, you know, understanding them and how to reach them in a way that makes sense so that they are, you know, enticed or at least this is what they wanna do, and I just happen to be in front of them when they wanna make a decision. 

Speaker 0

Sure. No. I can totally understand. It's it's it's, the the passive investor is very different than the active node investor, real estate investor, and, you know, and how do you how do you, focus your marketing and and business development efforts to kind of Yeah. Provide the most value to the to the right the person you're trying to reach. 

Speaker 2

There's sales, there's marketing, and they're not the same thing. They're they're not the same thing. 

Speaker 0

Yep. This is true. I've I've just started trying to implement some KPIs. We just we're just starting this in my business, you know, because we we do all this marketing, and it's like, what for? Yeah. Posting on social media. That's cool. Like, you know, it doesn't really mean anything if unless it's really coming back to the business. But Yeah. So, what's one question that that I haven't asked you that you wish I had? Anything you wanna talk about that we haven't touched on? Talk about your your podcast and and, you know, where people can can find you. 

Speaker 2

So we have a podcast called Be the Bank. We are on season five, and we're we're through probably, I don't know, six or seven episodes already on season five. We release it every other Wednesday, so we do about twenty six episodes a year. So every year is a season. That's how I I'm keeping track, so it's easy to keep track. I've been doing this for five years. I started off with my good friend here locally in the Indianapolis area. Her name is Elizabeth Maiora, or she likes to be called Super e. Mhmm. So we had the Super e and j podcast, and that was kind of the pilot season, the first season. And then we we changed the iteration to the two wealth shows. We're just talking about wealth and 

Speaker 0

and real estate. She's into short term rentals. Is that right? 

Speaker 2

She is. She's our short term rental expert in our Yep. In our region, really. Mhmm. 

Speaker 0

There's a 

Speaker 2

lot of people that do it, so she kinda flourished pretty quickly. And she does she's really smart really well. She worked in the car industry, up in up in Michigan for for a while in corporate. And so then she decided that she just really doesn't have a lot of time for it. Things are going well for her. She's running other businesses and buying other businesses. And 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And so then I just took the lead and said, you know what? Don't worry about it. I got this. And then we I started the, the Be The Bank, podcast. So now we've 

Speaker 0

I've 

Speaker 2

done two seasons of this new iteration of it. And so we focus on just talking about it's almost like, back to sports now. The ESPN analyst the next day talking about the game last night. You know, it's just Richard. You usually, Richard and I are meeting a guest bringing up maybe a specific topic or just analyzing something and just having debate and discussion about it and just being open about it. It's very quick. It's twenty to thirty minutes, so it's a car ride. That's what that podcast does. So it's called Be The Bank. You can subscribe to on any podcast directory. And then we do a live monthly, educational broadcast that we do on our YouTube channel and our Facebook page, and that's American Notebriars YouTube channel. And that is basically informational, more visual, just showing about me. Stats filming on the industry will usually show a case study or give an example of things that we've done. So it helps people kinda understand real estate. So They can choose to do it on their own, but most likely, they end up being more passive than want to invest in, like, your funds. 

Speaker 0

Sure. Makes a lot of sense. Where do you see things going on the the seller financed, seller financing side of things? 

Speaker 2

It's been trending. So let let let us start back to the crisis of two thousand nine. Mhmm. The debacle. The real estate debacle, I'll call it. The recession. When it whatever. The great recession, I think, is what they called it. They labeled it as as, the states did. So mortgages immediately got underwater because prices of home values just dipped very quickly Mhmm. Pretty much overnight. So banks foreclosed like crazy. Mhmm. In around two thousand twelve, two thousand eleven, two thousand thirteen, there was just a floodgate of foreclosures coming through. And Mhmm. You could you could have all the money in the world and spend as much as you can at the sheriff sale and there still be leftover inventory. It was just that much inventory that came to fruition. So a lot of these hedge funds would gobble them up. They would buy them. They would resell them on seller financing and do nothing to them. And borrowers would put down down payments, and they would sell them on land contract or contract for deeds or sometimes note mortgages. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So that paper kind of baked two thousand fourteen, two thousand fifteen, two thousand sixteen. They started selling off that paper a little bit at a time. So we had a lot of paper like that that came through. At that time, real estate was just, you know, rising in in in appreciation and appreciation. Around two thousand eighteen, it kinda scaled, stayed off. Sure. And then so that's when kind of things got flat, and it was harder to do notice notice things starting to do harder to flips and stuff until we got into two thousand twenty. And then really since the credit crunch was happening in nineteen, twenty, twenty one, it's been harder for people to get bank financing. So now Sure. Seller financing becomes strong. Appreciation is still rising. It's still rising. We're crazy. So seller financing is gonna continue to get stronger for the next couple of years. So if you don't know this already, Jamie, it's about thirty to thirty five thousand seller finance transactions get recorded every year. Wow. Residential Mhmm. Commercial, land, all that stuff. Both of them come from Texas. 

Speaker 0

Okay. Yeah. No. I would I would I agree that it's only gonna continue to trend in the upward direction as far as opportunity in the seller finance seller financing space. You know, it's it's And, of course, we we record this, you know, today. Who knows what's gonna what it's gonna be like in six months. Right? We don't have a crystal ball. But the fact is, like you said, residential real estate can even though there are other offices, you know, commercial is different, multifamily might start to see some real it's look looking like we're seeing some cracks in that that space. But when you're talking residential real estate in the, say, seventy five thousand to two hundred fifty thousand dollar range, it's only the prices are only continuing to climb. And because why would people transactions are down, but but, so that collateral value is is only continuing to rise. And like you said and with the credit crunch, underwriting standards have have only gone up and up and up. So it's hard to get an institutional loan. It's hard to get a loan from a bank. Right? 

Speaker 2

So Why why would they lend on a property that's a hundred and fifty thousand west? It's just it does them no good because it costs them the same to underwrite that as it does a million dollar home. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So why why would they want to? It only benefits us as entrepreneurs and real estate investors for seller to just seller financing, to help help that market void right there as as our friend Eddie would say. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. So no. That's great. It seems like you've got some strong opportunity there in the space that you find yourself in. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Residential is gonna be good. I think twenty twenty four in the spring is gonna be a great year to start investing in real property again. I think you'll start to seeing more motivated sellers at that point. And so I think there'll be inventory will start to balance back out again. I think commercial is gonna be a great opportunity for nonperforming note investors. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

It's only it's only gonna get more bleak, for, the commercial banks and commercial lending right now because they're holding paper that's just losing its value every day. And so you can prop you're probably gonna be able to pick up some pretty good deals pretty soon if you invest in commercial. It's a lot more capital intensive, but Sure. But you can pick up some good deals, which is great while we have the fund as well, and you do too. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. There's always there's always opportunity behind every every problem. Right? Even though the headlines will scare you. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. 

Speaker 0

That's that's, you know, that's the life of an entrepreneur and an investor is finding that opportunity and then adding value to those Yeah. Distressed assets and adding value to the your investors and the people you work with. So, what else do you wanna add, Justin, before we wrap up? 

Speaker 2

Really, I appreciate being on. I this is the first time I shared a lot of those things on on OpenAir. So, hopefully, my experiences will give somebody inspiration to say, you know, there's somebody has gone through something. Like I said, some of my stuff is not traumatic or tragic by by any means from somebody else's experiences or what they've gone through. But I think the moral of my story can relate to a lot of people is, you know, if you wanna do this, just commit to it just like a marriage and just be in it for the long haul. And there's gonna be ups. There's gonna be a lot of downs. And all you have to do is learn from the downs and be prepared for when they happen. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. I mean, it's a very practical episode. Unfortunately, a lot of people can relate to relationship struggles and and and, you know, adultery and divorce and things like that. You know, and and I I just love the fact that you were vulnerable and and that, you know, you recognize even though a lot of what you went through, you actually couldn't control, you're still not you're still owning up to you know, there are lessons there for what you could have done better as far as the communication. You you talked about that. Yeah. And so just for I think for the listener out there, understanding that life sucks sometimes, and and that's okay. And you you can get through it, and better days are ahead. And, you know, you Justin, you've had struggles on the personal side of things as well as on the, you know, the the business side of things, but you're still here. And, your lessons from your sports and your swimming, your discipline and your tenacity that came out of that is only gonna come back and reward you and reward, you know, Richard and the the investors who work with you. So I do thank you for coming on. And, any any, last tidbit you wanna share? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I I would say as you were, regurgitating this this episode here and and spelling it out in in a fast sense, I was thinking, one of the best things that I learned from counseling is that when you get stuck on something or you just shake your head and you don't understand why, you know, you write down on a piece of paper, what are the things I can control 

Speaker 0

and 

Speaker 2

what are the things I can't control. Mhmm. And one of the things I can't control is is somebody else. Right? 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

I can control my feelings. I can control how I react to a situation, but I can't control what somebody else does. Sure. So a lot of the things that I do in life, I just I sit back and I just understand, like, I if I'm trying to get a certain reaction out of somebody or or a certain thing that happened, I need to make sure that I'm communicating to them how they wanna be communicated. So, one of my biggest pet peeves is is people not reading emails. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. So 

Speaker 2

I understand when you when you send a lengthy email, not everybody is going to read it in its entirety. So you have to make it very brief, very quick, and very easy to follow, color coordinate it, bullet point it, and just say, I need these three questions answered. And then, you know, your life's a lot easier. So I can't control how if somebody reads my emails. Right. But what I can control is just getting the point out quickly. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. How you present that email to them. I you and I have, several of the same pet peeves. Yeah. Why won't this person listen to me? You know? Why won't they read my email? 

Speaker 2

I mean, I told you to use a blue pen on on the white paper. 

Speaker 0

Right. 

Speaker 2

I don't know how else to spin it. 

Speaker 0

But that's that's good. No. It's it's very true, though. In in all seriousness, you can't control what other people, anything they do, really. 

Speaker 2

So why get upset about it, Jamie? Yeah. Why get why get upset about it? 

Speaker 0

Yep. I love it. Well, Justin Bogard, this has been very good. I really appreciate your time. I think you said you, you're, you said something about you're about to go, swing some golf clubs. Is that right? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. It's a nice day today. I'm gonna hit the range real quick, and then Awesome. My youngest daughter has a math bowl contest, at our local middle school, in a few hours. So that's Love it. That's my plans today, and that's what I look forward to is just getting to enjoy those things. Because I have those freedoms now. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Absolutely. Now you mentioned your your podcast and your monthly, webinar show. What is there anything anything else you wanna, put out there as far as how the listener can get get a hold of you? 

Speaker 2

Sure. I I appreciate that opportunity to to plug in. So once again, we're with American Note Buyers. We have a website called a n b funds dot com. We have a podcast that's called Be The Bank. You can look you can subscribe to any podcast directory. We have a YouTube channel for American note buyers. You can look us up and see tons of videos. And so those are the three things that we have out there. So if you wanna communicate with us, go to our website a and b funds dot com, and we have a contest us page, and you can just kinda look at some of our content there. But if you wanna get some free stuff out of it, listen to our podcast, download it, and then also watch some of our YouTube videos. We have a ton of content out there just, you know, like I'm sure Yeah. You and Chris do as well. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. No. And then, like I said, I've for the listener out there, I've gotten to know Justin and Richard better over the last year or two, and I highly recommend you check out their content. They do they know what they're doing. They put out a lot of good stuff. So thanks again, Justin. And to the listener, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. 

Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. 

Speaker 0

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