Dan Haberkost: Shedding a Scarcity Mindset and Finding Success in Land Investing by Age 26

Speaker 2

00:00

 This episode is sponsored by the Integrity income fund, which is managed by yours truly and my team at Labrador lending, the Integrity income fund is for accredited investors. It aims to pay an eight percent preferred return and an 8.5% preferred return for early investors. It aims to pay out monthly distributions. There's a 25 thousand dollar minimum and only a one-year lockup. If you are an accredited investor and you're looking to get away from Wall Street, looking to beat inflation and looking for an asset class that is backed by hard physical real estate then look no further than Integrity income fund, check it out at Labrador Lending.com. On this episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I had the chance to speak with Dan Hammer cost of Front Range land, he's a land investor and real estate investor and getting into some different strategies in real estate. But he's 26, and I mean it just to think where I was at 26 and where he is a 26 just as far as these are real estate. Careers. I mean, he's light years ahead of me. So, super impressive. You know, I he's very well-spoken and just it's a really good interview. I think you're going to get a lot out of it. We talked mostly about from an adversity standpoint we talked mostly about overcoming the anxiety and worry of associated with a scarcity mindset with regard to money and there's a lot of discussion about money and Financial Freedom and Kind of the mindset that Dan came from a family and Hometown perspective and verses where he is now, and they're just worlds apart and so maybe not as personal of an episode from a personal adversity standpoint but extremely practical. Like I said, he's very well-spoken. Inspiring story just I mean he's been doing active real estate since he was 16. This guy is definitely not afraid of hard works. He's a critical thinker but an action taker at the same time very analytical and motivating and motivated. So I know you're going to like this one. Take a listen.

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02:48

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03:28

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Speaker 2

03:37

 Welcome everybody to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman, and I am happy today. To be joined by Dan Harbor cost, Dan. How are you doing today?

Speaker 1

03:48

 I am great. Jamie, thanks for having.

Speaker 2

03:50

 Me. Absolutely, Dan is in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and Company is Front Range. Excuse me, front and rangeland LLC. And I think we're going to get into all the different and nuances and different asset classes and strategies that Dan has employed in real estate investing in particular. But since you know more about yourself than I do Dan, why don't you take it away? Tell the listener who you are and what you're up to today?

Speaker 1

04:19

 Sure, sure. So Front Range land is the active business and what that involves if you think, About what someone refers to when they say a wholesaling company and you know, the recent years you're going direct to seller for houses or apartments. Well, I do the same but for land and so really a built, a marketing funnel Marketing System that brings in dozens of leads for land at 30 to 50 cents on the dollar and specifically in Phil residential or commercial but all infill, Lots, some of them, we build houses on. Some of them all just split for cash, some of them all sell on notes and some of them we assigned. I am doing that in both Colorado and Florida and that's the active business. And then that feeds the passive investing and acquisition of more rental properties. It goes back to. When I was a teenager actually I was managing a portfolio rentals at 16 plus a farm for my boss as he would travel to Aruba and I did that through high school and then in college. I managed a landscaping company working 45 50 hours a week while going to school full-time and that was a lot but it was Clear to me hey if I can manage that much work, plus full time school. I can certainly start sort of some sort of business grew up in a lower-middle-class, very rural part of Ohio and didn't want to repeat the same sort of story that everyone else in my family had gone working a crappy job making next to nothing and just being controlled by money. Because if you don't have any money that all your decisions are dictated by it, right? When you take vacation, what you buy when you travel when you see your family. And so anyways, it's Reading different books. When I was about 20 years old about Stock Investing businesses and like everyone else, Rich Dad, Poor Dad was the lightbulb moment. Their lists eight was clearly the answer. And so at 21, I was still in college. I bought a duplex came out to visit my brother in Colorado. Knew I didn't want to stay in Ohio and saw the mountains and actually saw the sun for the first time in my life and so went home. Quit, my job gave my duplex to a property manager, drove across the country and came out here. Bought some more rentals started the active business. So today I am 26 And still fairly young, but having ran other people's businesses. I feel like I have been doing this for a long time. So I have the active business, which feeds the passive. Got it.

Speaker 2

06:36

 26, but you started in real estate at 16 or.

Speaker 1

06:40

 Write 16, as well as managing.

Speaker 2

06:41

 Those rentals. Okay. Got it. All right. So yeah, I mean, that's 10 years. I mean, that it's actually is a long time whether you're 26 or 456. That's pretty cool. You're definitely not afraid of hard works. It sounds like And yeah, all right. That's awesome. So let us dive into your backstory a little bit more you touched on a little bit of it. They're obviously like we talked about a little bit before this before we hit record our show is focused on overcoming adversity and getting to abundance and again our listeners are very much aware that it's not you know snapping your fingers and you have no more problems and life is perfect. But there's a lot that can be done to address the adversity that you are either given or, or you create yourself or, you know, that you end up having to face in life. So pick it up where you'd like to whether that's childhood or five years ago. But let us go back to kind of you know, your first kind of major challenge in life and let us talk about kind of how you navigated that.

Speaker 1

07:51

 Well, in the context of money and investing, I would say that goes back to when I was a teenager and again, didn't have a lot of money came from a very conservative background and just from very early on. I remember worry, fear anxiety conflict. When I think about money, those were the emotions and experiences we had right. My parents didn't have much money and especially when I was young, I was the third out of four kids and so when all four of us were in the house, it was especially tight all the time I was in late. High school things were more stable but yeah, I will never forget. That's actually, let us take it back. Even further. I was 5 or 6 years old. We're at the grocery store and I wanted a Sprite and my mom goes will do you have money I go? No, well then you can't have a spray and that was that. So I would there's a lot of thoughts I have here, but when I was 15, I started working at that tree farm. He didn't give me the rentals to manage until a little 16 but and I want to buy a car and so that was my way of going and buying A car, and I was pretty frustrated and you know, 15 year old May and bitter about that because all my friends just got cars, bought for them all, my friends were going to have college paid for them and that wasn't the case for me. And so in hindsight years later, probably the biggest piece of advice even if you feel like you are in a disadvantaged situation again in hindsight, I certainly wasn't really in the larger context but at 15 you don't have that perspective. If you feel like you're in any sort of disadvantaged situation sitting there, Feeling bad for yourself. Even if it's Justified, isn't going to help you and you have got to not take responsibility of necessarily for the cause, but for changing it, you know, it's like that book that he will Elrod book. I read that a long time ago, and I don't really remember much about the miracle morning, but I do remember the story of him getting hit by a car and saying, well no one's going to fix this, for me. It's not my fault. So I guess I have to take responsibility to.

Speaker 2

09:45

 Change that. And that's really stuck with me. That's interesting, just to cut you off, briefly. Actually just listen to another. I have heard him on several  but I just listened to a podcast yesterday with Hal Elrod. And is it how Elrod or Elrod everything? Alright. Yeah. Anyway he when he was 23 he emailed like 25 people in his life and ask for you know very real feedback on how they viewed him and not to get too off on a tangent but it You know, he the whole point was he was taking ownership of how of the Legacy he was leaving the life, he was living and that's a story for another day. But yeah, he's a, he's an inspirational person for sure. And, you know, his book, The Miracle morning is really good but that will do a follow-up episode on that. Yeah, yeah. So okay where were we?

Speaker 1

10:47

 Yeah, well anyways, so I am kind of oscillating back and forth If between, you know, teenage stands perspective, and exactly perspective, but that definitely made me bitter and it wasn't until late College where I decided to grow up and deal with it and say, what can I make the best out of this? And at that time, it was really clear to me that I had the skill set of someone much older. So in college, I was running that landscaping company was managing a dozen, plus guys that were twice my age, a lot of them, and I was going to school full-time and I said, okay, I can do that. I can definitely build some sort of business. And, so I can cry about it or I can go do something with it and I chose the latter.

Speaker 2

11:25

 So just that just can you give a little more context like what did your parents do for a living? And what you know what? What kind of Ohio were you? And yeah.

Speaker 1

11:34

 My mom taught piano lessons and my dad was a pastor at a church. Oh Cam. And this.

Speaker 2

11:40

 Was in every role they were rolling in.

Speaker 1

11:42

 It. Yeah. Yes. And so for anyone that knows Ohio, this was about 50 minutes south west of Cleveland right on the border between Litchfield and.

Speaker 2

11:51

 Dinah. Okay. Cornfields. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So no, I think that's awesome. That just you, recognize that, I mean the fact is money, it does matter. And I don't know what, you know what you were, how your family taught money skills or anything like that, but they didn't, they didn't. But I know for it sounds like maybe you came from more of a scarcity mindset and, you know, not the abundance mindset That Rich Dad. Poor Dad opened you up to. But I mean, here's you know, money is so important. I mean and, and that sounds like you have come to that realization probably earlier than most people did. So yeah, anything to weigh in there?

Speaker 1

12:38

 Yeah, so first and foremost. Yes, especially my dad, huge Warrior. The sky was always falling. The world is always ending, and the market was always crashing. Everything was going wrong all the time and that has been extremely difficult to get out of that sort. Thinking I catch myself and I will say wait. No, that's your dad. That's not you, that's ridiculous. So I still struggle with that to this day, and we can talk about some of the things that have gone wrong in business. Up to this point the bit, you're going to get kicked in the teeth. I will tell you that. And the second Point, what you just said is so true because it's not that money, it's money itself is just a concept because bartering is difficult, but it enables all of the things that matter in life. So whether it be, you know, I live out here, My brother. I have seen my family. I will see my parents six or seven times this year. He will see them once. Why? Because I have money, it doesn't really matter. I can trade that for things, that matter. I can go travel whatever I want. So money is just a tool to write trade for the things that actually matter. So, when I hear people say, oh, what's more, you know, this and that and this is more important than money. Well, as somewhat misleading because money is the thing that enables all the things.

Speaker 2

13:43

 Are better. Yeah, I love that. I mean, and it's like, you know, I equate money to, it's like the Internet. It's like, is it inherently good or Add, no, but it's extremely powerful. The can be very powerful and it is, it's just a tool and it's how you want to use it. And I think to take the approach of money, doesn't matter, or, or becoming a slave, you know, to that fear surrounding money that you're talking about is really not, not the right way to go, you know, it's easy for me to sit here and judge your parents or my parents obviously, but I think too many people, People take that kind of cop out where it's like, no I mean I you know I shouldn't money isn't something to strive for and so therefore I am just gonna you know, go the easy route and not a not try to acquire more money but what it can do is enable things like you just talked about enable Freedom really is what enable time freedom and location freedom and like you were talking about. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

14:47

 When someone says money, doesn't matter that's very interesting. My first Ruby. What is your week look like when they tell me? Oh, they get up. They go to work. I would you know respond. Most in most cases. It sounds like money. Dictates everything you do all day every day so that's interesting because yeah, you typically, if you don't have it then money controls your life. If you do have it and you.

Speaker 2

15:06

 Control your life. Sure. Yeah, that's really good. So, what other obstacles are kind of themes that were difficult for you? Exist existed? In other words, anything not money-related. That you grew up. With it was kind of challenging from an either human or a business perspective.

Speaker 1

15:26

 Um, I would say the biggest thing that pertains to this conversation that I would want to get into would probably be just that intense fear based scarcity mindset, right? Just the pain is. So they never figured out how to make money. So they're just super conservative with spending money and then never got to see their, you know, their parents, my grandparents, their siblings. I am talking about appearance. That's probably the biggest one that applies to this conversation. And because it's so hard, you know, I in hindsight I have cut myself. So short by having been stingy about marketing dollars, right? I have a hiring people just, I have made my own life so much harder because of this. So, yeah, that's been a huge one for me. And it still is to this day. I catch myself thinking very irrationally or worrying about things that I shouldn't worry about at all, you know? So that's probably the biggest one. And, for me self, Awareness has helped the most right trying to catch myself and say, hey that's its not you, that's just took, you know, 20 years of hearing your dad writer that has helped me a lot. They're.

Speaker 2

16:30

 Okay, so take us from say, 20 through 26. Just kind of bring us up to speed. Sure. Did you, how did you get out of that scarcity mindset, you know, or attempt to anyway and then get to where you are today? What were some tools or tactics that got you where you are yet?

Speaker 1

16:46

 Probably, the two biggest things are just preceding taking action in spite of Being afraid and the people you get around, I would say the two biggest. So I bought that duplex in college and then moved out to Colorado. Bought another house, hack out here and it was around that time that I realized, hey, the whole low and no money down thing. Sounds really great. It sells a lot of courses and books and podcast. But at the end of the day, this is a cash intensive Venture. You're going to have things go wrong. If you don't have cash or someone partnered with you, who do you're going to get yourself hurt. You're probably not going to last very long. So I started going to the real estate group that I now host out here. And I met a guy who had been investing in land building houses, Apartments commercial strip centers etc for last 40 years. So I would drive an hour south every weekend and go work with him work for him and just learn and that was how land and development came to the picture. Originally you can really consolidating a lot of information here but through that I eventually just started doing it myself and that's where Front Range land came about and It has allowed me to buy more properties. So again, I just turned 26 now and that's what the business is. At this point, Front Range, land feeding the investing. And I want to tell a story about that guy. I just mentioned. Yeah, go for it. Okay. All right, so when I met him, he seemed a little bit, his memory wasn't great and I don't know, there's something funky about this guy, but he showed me all these properties building. He showed me all his rentals, and he clearly had experience turns out. He'd gotten brain, cancer. Only Is 14. So we're talking the 70s. It had an operation, his whole life. He had been disabled, they can barely write his name legibly, terrible memory, and he is gone out and built a massive business gone and done deals all over the country and the world. He showed me an apartment, he built in China in spite of that. And at the time, when I met him, he had gotten cancer. Again, this time in his neck, he could barely speak. He was, I watched him go through treatment. I did have taken him to treatments, go through radiation and chemo, and in the midst of that, I don't think I ever heard him. A single time I will never forget it was at the end of 2019, when he was nearly dead from treatments and I had a question, he's like, I will meet you like, are you sure? Yes, I know I will meet you. Anyways, I meet him. He barely walks in. I think we met at a McDonald's or something in town. You can barely talk. He can barely walk, and I am just like, are you sure? You sure you want to teii, you know, to try take you home what? And he's like, Dan? I have been dealing with this since I was 14 years old is not going to take me out, I will get better and anyways, so I have learned a lot from him because here's a guy who has a really legitimate reason to complain. I mean, dancer at 14, oh my gosh, she's fought with it on and off his whole life been disabled his whole life and I have literally never heard this man complained, and that's awesome. He went out regardless and built a business and had a really cool.

Speaker 2

19:40

 Life and he's still doing well. Yeah, it's awesome. Yep. Yeah. That's I need to get him on the podcast.

Speaker 1

19:49

 Yeah.

Speaker 2

19:50

 We can You can talk later. But I mean that's the type of story that is perfect for this show to be honest. Because you know, that's what I am hoping for. Is that people take away from this show that not that you should never complain or not that you don't that your problems aren't real, right? But here's an example of someone who dealt with real adversity, like it look legitimate and is still dealing with. It sounds like But made the most of it, right. And so to me, that's inspirational. I am not certainly happy that happened to him but that's a I mean that's yeah. It makes my things. I complain about kind.

Speaker 1

20:33

 Of, it's evaporating. Yeah. I when I catch myself complaining about anything, I always think about him because it yeah, I have never really looked up anyone. Especially as a kid, he's probably the first person I have ever actually was impressed by her admired bikes. That's incredible and Young Minds.

Speaker 2

20:49

 So and how did you just met him through the Real Estate club and then kind of latched on, and he kind of became a mentor to you is that.

Speaker 1

20:57

 Just exactly. Yep. Okay yep.

Speaker 2

21:00

 And also the other thing I want to pull out as it sounds like you were adding value to him you know without specifically asking for something in return.

Speaker 1

21:09

 He actually stood up and said, hey guys, I need help with such and such in my business. You lived in an hour, south of Colorado, Springs down in Pueblo West. So it was a bit of a drive, and of course, Everyone gathered around him. Got his number me. And one other person actually took him up on it. The other guy quit after like a week and it was just very clear to me after a short time that he knew what I wanted to know. And, so I just kept going and eventually we just became friends, and he invested in me and with me and then I just do it on my own.

Speaker 2

21:37

 Now. That's awesome. I mean you took action, you have persistence, you know, just so many things that if you will do those few things, then you all of a sudden you're in the top 10% of Formers. And you know, I think that's, that's great.

Speaker 1

21:52

 Yep. And not to expand on that. So how when I said the people you're around influenced so much right getting out of that mindset, and he has contributed that a lot of spending time with him. He's really taught me how to think very (differently) than how I grew up, right? If I will ask him if something is doable. So backstory, when I met him, I was shortly after moving here. And I always talked about how my favorite part of Colorado is. It's always sunny, we have bright blue skies all the time. I love that grew up in Ohio and you don't see the sun, six months. I mean, it's horrible. Don't ever go there, but anyways, so if I would ever ask him if something was doable or can I do it? He would always say Dan, it's blue skies, it's blue skies. You can do whatever you want. And so he would use that analogy. And, so I think about that all the time and that will stick with me for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2

22:39

 That's fantastic. That's really good. Awesome. Now, we will get into your business at the end as well. But what, what does it I know you said you have the passive and active and Feed each other. Essentially I released the active feeds, the passive. But what is your team look like? What's the structure of your business look like yeah, so.

Speaker 1

22:58

 For Front Range, land for the active business. I have two Acquisitions managers. They both do business in Florida and Colorado and I just have a network of different realtors different title agents. A couple different contractors I use. So I have kept it really, really low maintenance. And for anyone who most often people, when they think of direct a seller businesses, and real estate, and think of wholesaling, He will house and that is way more time-intensive with land. The due diligence much easier. You never have to meet anyone in person. So one Acquisitions manager can handle a lot of volume because it's very, very simple. You're not dealing with foundations and electrical and plumbing, it's just a flat piece of land. You double-check your zoning, your typography, your size and setbacks, and it's about it. It's very, very easy. So with two Acquisitions managers. You get.

Speaker 2

23:44

 A lot done, got it. Yeah, and you're also, if you're creating notes, you're not dealing with, Are occupied issues like Dodd-Frank and cfpb and the issues that I deal with on our business. So yeah, that's awesome. All right, well, I am going to fly through some questions, and then we will get back to kind of your where people can reach out to you. What do people misunderstand about you? Oh.

Speaker 1

24:12

 Gosh, Miss. understand people meet me in the context of business and I especially move to Colorado. The culture is very different. So I grew up in, I would compare The Stereotype of the New Jersey and New York sort of culture to being similar to Cleveland. And that area where communication is very quick, very direct. I have had to change that dramatically moving out here because it's Farm. I got to relax, talk slower, and I am naturally just a driver. So in the context of business, most people think I am boring. And excessively practical. So that's probably the biggest thing. Anybody knows me in business, probably does not think I am very fun, but come snowboarding or climbing mountains, very, very different side of me. You will .

Speaker 2

24:53

 See, you know, you will see it's all blue skies at that point. Yeah, I mean it's your 26. I just doesn't really fit into the context right now but it's just super impressive. What you have done so far. So on the flipside of that, what would you say is one of your bigger failures thus far?

Speaker 1

25:12

 Mmm, that's a great question. I would say not living up to potential. Having been way too scared, allowing that to affect me and not being nearly far along as I could, or should be in my opinion. That's probably the biggest thing that comes to.

Speaker 2

25:26

 Mind. That's good. And I what you learn from that is as what.

Speaker 1

25:34

 Yeah, well, remembering, that's not me. That's just what I was raised on and very practically. Getting more granular in the context of business spending more on marketing, not being afraid to, and I am talking to myself right now Haley, go spend more money on marketing. That's probably the biggest thing and good people. Good people in.

Speaker 2

25:55

 Marketing. That's, I can, I can definitely relate to those. Those if you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would it be? They could be, you know, could be someone with us still today or not.

Speaker 1

26:10

 Oh man, any historical.

Speaker 2

26:12

 Figure if you drink coffee. I.

Speaker 1

26:14

 Do drink coffee. Um, I am just trying to think. Who would I want to talk to? I read a lot of history, but it's more. Big picture.

Speaker 2

26:22

 Doesn't have to be your favorite person but just, you know, anybody want to spend an hour with pick their brain.

Speaker 1

26:28

 Oh man. I wasn't prepared for this question. It would probably gosh. Probably one of the Greek philosopher someone from a long time. I read one of my favorite ancient history books to sit acidities. I forget how you pronounce it, the history of the pill Peloponnesian War. I love that book. I would go talk to him because yeah, ancient history is very interesting and it reminds you how much or how little has changed?

Speaker 2

26:55

 There you go. I like it. If you were given ten million dollars, Tomorrow, what would you do with it besides marketing and?

Speaker 1

27:01

 Hiring? Well I would probably pay off a couple rentals and have that at the base of the portfolio as just completely solid. Like you know go by like a Walgreens building something like that. Right? A very low risk 30-year triple net. That had the base. I put that in a separate entity, take the rest and go after far, more probable, not necessarily risky, but go after a far higher return with that, leverage that money. Okay Ryan, add a couple zeros to that in the next couple of years while keeping the more stable table.

Speaker 2

27:36

 Sure you shouldn't anchor, tenant or whatever. What's your what does your rental portfolio look like today? If you don't mind getting.

Speaker 1

27:43

 In sure. Yeah, so I have 13 tenants between six properties, so that's a duplex. And then five houses here to of those houses are entered by the room, two of those houses are traditional rentals and the one of the house houses is the one I live in with the abasement separated out as its own unit. It and then putting tenants down there just they have their own entrance and everything.

Speaker 2

28:03

 That's I am just thinking of where I was at 26, and we don't need to get into that.

Speaker 1

28:08

 It's.

Speaker 2

28:11

 You know it's awesome. I am super impressed. Not that your goal was to impress me but you know, I can still be impressed. Thank you. If you had to eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it?

Speaker 1

28:23

 Be? Oh, man, and Cal still apply. I take it.

Speaker 2

28:29

 Yes. Okay, that.

Speaker 1

28:31

 Probably eggs. Eggs and toast. I love eggs. My breakfast. I eat every day.

Speaker 2

28:35

 Is very yeah, eggs and toast. Nice. All right. What's a challenge that you're facing right now in your business?

Speaker 1

28:42

 Mmm, great question. Yeah, it goes back to what? We have been talking about the whole time. I want to scale, but I am intimidated, and I am doing, and I am sending out mail, but I am intimidated by two things. Number one, markets with bigger numbers really, just more zeros. Like, I am moving into Cape Coral. Right now, we're working on it, and a lot of those Lots sell for, two, three, four, a hundred grand, and that's intimidating. So I am working on that. And then secondarily, I need to hire someone else and I don't want to, but I need to. So there's that and then number three is, I have not leveled up my investing at all to match the active income. And I need to do that. I have got one of my best friends from when I was kids when we were kids text me all the time. Have you gotten into commercial yet, have you bought an office or strips? Had like damn it. No. Anyways, my buying houses does not make sense unless we're talking very nice houses. It does not. I need to be investing in larger assets and I haven't done it yet, so that's number three. Those would be the three.

Speaker 2

29:43

 Things. Gotcha. Okay, that's good. I don't think single-family homes are the worst place to put your money but.

Speaker 1

29:51

 But no agree. But, you know, I just again, who you're around matters a lot, knowing they're seeing what some of my friends.

Speaker 2

29:58

 Are. Doing, yeah.

Speaker 1

30:00

 I look at my house, but why the heck do I do? Yeah.

Speaker 2

30:04

 Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. If you could do one occupation other than real estate, are totally unrelated to what you're doing. What would it be physicist, okay? Why.

Speaker 1

30:15

 I love math comes very naturally to me I like saw I love science numbers and physics or somewhere in biology. Both The Sciences are really interesting, got it.

Speaker 2

30:25

 Yeah I liked physics a lot to that was fun. All right. What's a book or two? That you'd recommend besides the one you already mentioned? Yeah. Actually mentioned a couple already but.

Speaker 1

30:35

 Well everyone talks about Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So that's in. Countless a cop-out. Sapiens is excellent. I have read that it's the only book I have read three years in a row and then deep Simplicity is another one that I really like that's the only book I read and then went to page one and read again. There are Concepts in that are so applicable just across the board. I love that book and then anything written by Howard. And Marx. He I like his memos especially he's in the same world as Warren Buffett. So not necessarily real estate, but he starts everything. He writes with. Contrary to a lot of people he says the future is unknowable. He doesn't try and predict the future, specifically, right? You can have an idea as to kind of, you know. Okay, interest rates are going up that is going to price people out, but we don't know how extreme it of an effect that has on the market. So anything, he writes, his excellent is thinking is very rational calm and Well, written on the market, what's going on and how to approach it. So yeah, anything he.

Speaker 2

31:34

 Writes It's really good. How about a movie any movies? You'd recommend. Oh, I.

Speaker 1

31:40

 Love the assassination of Jesse James. There Will Be Blood. All the Wes Anderson movie is, I enjoy those, the Irishman I like long, well, done character studies. I hate action movies. I like more, that long, interesting irishman's, really good. Yeah.

Speaker 2

32:00

 Yeah, that was good. Do you listen to any, any podcasts?

Speaker 1

32:05

 Yeah, I still enjoy BiggerPockets David Greene, specifically, he and I probably think very much alike. So I like listening to him.

Speaker 2

32:13

 Something. I because I just, it's not out yet as of today. But one of the recent interviews I just did. We're talking about that. She was on the Bigger Pockets podcast, actually. Hmm, But I told I stopped listening and I, apparently, I need to give it another shot.

Speaker 1

32:31

 I will be listening, they will ask us Super beginner question. But then he will give his perspective and thinking as somebody who has quite a bit ahead of me. And then I always find that to be value. I mean, there are some that are just very beginner, but he tends to say and things in there, that make me come back. And then the other one I like, I like Kevin Bob's commercial podcast and I like, oh, gosh, the Real Deals Elliott Smith, Tucker mayor, who up in the second request, they're very practical and talk through their businesses in detail.

Speaker 2

33:03

 That's really useful. Nice, I think Kevin puppet. He did have at least two podcasts, right. I think he's.

Speaker 1

33:08

 Yeah. I just know his General and Commercial one that's been around for quite a while. I can't think about him. Yeah.

Speaker 2

33:15

 Awesome. All right, two more questions for you because I know you're a busy guy. How do you like to serve?

Speaker 1

33:21

 Others? Well, right now at this point, I turned around, I host this Real Estate Group now that I got a lot of value from. When I moved out here, I am doing the talk tonight. And from that, there's a lot of people that just reach out to me and I try to help how I can. So as of now that's.

Speaker 2

33:39

 It, that's, that's good. What's the talk on tonight?

Speaker 1

33:42

 I am going to talk through land, but more specifically. I am going.

Speaker 2

33:45

 To pull the.

Speaker 1

33:46

 Concept out of land. That is applicable across the board. So we could get into that would love to hit on that shirt. Cooking for we will just the concept of an efficient market, right? So there was the efficient market hypothesis in the world of equities. I think it was in the 60s where their idea was you have millions of Investors looking at prices at all times they're updating constantly so prices reach intrinsic value now. We know people aren't rational there are Misses. Prices and discounts but it is really, really hard to buy a stock at a discount in the world of real estate. I would like and single-family and multi-family to stocks in that really difficult to buy it at a discount. But wherever you can find in efficient markets, there is huge opportunity, soul and is a great example of this not well understood. Stood easily, Miss. price, lots of variables. People don't understand. It's very easy to go by land at 50 cents on the dollar. Another example right now. Small businesses. Okay, I am watching my girlfriend's parents. They have had a septic company that's been super profitable in Ohio, for the last 30 years, and they might just have to shut it down because they don't know how to sell it. Businesses like that get shut down and or sold at one or two, maybe three times, cash flow. All of the time when if there was a well-done system, where the business is work, Close to the masses. And the numbers were clear and financing was clear. Those would sell it much, much higher multiples, but they don't because the market is grossly inefficient think what Ray Kroc did to McDonald's. Think what the hedge funds have done with storage units and mobile home parks in the last 10 years. That's the concept. I want to drive home tonight because it's applicable to both assets and specific markets within assets. And that's how you find opportunity.

Speaker 2

35:30

 Wow. That's, I might have to Drive up there.

Speaker 1

35:34

 Flying. So that's enough.

Speaker 2

35:37

 Wow. That's yeah. Now it makes a lot of sense. That's it. Might be two or three meetings rap in one or.

Speaker 1

35:45

 Yeah. I want to talk about building to and I can't fit that in so it will land, and I am going to go granular how to identify markets and then big picture that contact.

Speaker 2

35:54

 Us now. Do you sell it? Do you ever write notes on the land that you keep? Yeah. So we Finance. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1

36:03

 Yeah.

Speaker 2

36:03

 I know. I said, two more questions like five questions ago, but, okay so goes.

Speaker 1

36:07

 No, we're all right. Got an hour blocked off.

Speaker 2

36:12

 What's one question you wish I would ask, but I haven't.

Speaker 1

36:14

 Asked, you know, great question because there's one story I want to tell the whole point of this podcast is adversity and the last slide actually from my talk tonight. I want to go through that with you and that is you listen to me on a podcast or when you're listening to BiggerPockets, we sound very well put together, very smart and planned, and calculated in hindsight. And we always talk about things that go, right? And I promise you that building a business is a lot. Like, imagine you're going up steps. You can't really seek. You're in the clouds and someone's punching you in the face from both sides of the whole way up. That's what building a business is like we only sound smart and calculated in hindsight were all uncertain as we move forward and things. Go wrong. So let me, let me give you an example of that. So, my primary Market out here in Pueblo West Colorado for years. Had been my primary market yet tens of thousands of subdivided Lots with utilities in place. It had been neglected by people in Colorado as far as the business side. But as far As the end user, lots of people were moving there. So I was down there having a field day, and still having to some degree and so find home from Florida. This January, I had already purchased six slots down there, three more under contract, four of those six slots were under contract to sell, and I was going to profit between 11 and 14 / lat. And then also had a number of builds lined up for subsequent lots and all at once. They shut down additional permits and water taps with no warning nothing and I it was the worst. It was a terrible day. That was I was flying home. I get to a layover in DC. I have to rush to my next flight, you know how it is when you land and you get all the texts and calls you miss my phone just blows up and clearly something is very wrong. And I am supposed to have those four closings in the next week. So I am expecting you to make almost 50 Grand and then also get all that Capital back and just like that, it all shuts down. So I am sitting there thinking, holy crap, these might be completely useless, they might not turn this back on. I didn't know at that same. I am time. I had a nightmare with a rental where a contractor screwed me, as a new tenant was moving in and to add to it. My accountant messed up. I thought I owed an additional 20 grand in taxes. I owed 51. So, I had to write that check at lunch so within the course of a week, those three things how. Yep, those are. So it's just a massive kick in the teeth. And I smile now because, you know, it's like, at this point, I feel like I can handle anything because that s one example. But, That's the kind that's when you sign up for, for, starting a business, it's worth it. Because at the end of the day when I wake up, my priorities are my priorities, but you are going to get kicked in the teeth. I.

Speaker 2

38:54

 Will tell you and I think that's really critical. You don't know how you don't know what's going to look like right, but it is, it has helped me to in times when, okay, this really sucks whatever I am going through. But it's like wait you knew things were going to come at you so why are you surprised like yeah. Oh yeah. But so any, what's the short version of how you got out of all that?

Speaker 1

39:16

 Yeah, okay, well the rental thing was just a day-by-day getting other contractors paying more and handling it. The tax thing, I mean, I am cautious, so I had to cash it was just irritating the land thing. It worked out okay? It could have been a lot of worse. It turned out as time went on. We got some more information from the Metro District they made it. Clear. Okay. We are going to open this back up. There's going to be a limited amount of TAPS and at a higher price. So eventually I have been able to sell off all those Lots didn't make nearly as much money as expected. Didn't, I just certain amount of builds I wanted to have in process? Thankfully, I had paid for a tap and gotten a permit for one the week before, so that was grandfathered in. But, so I am way behind on what I intended to accomplish down there. But I did thankfully, you know, I didn't get stuck with all those. I didn't lose all that money and then I quickly pivoted into Florida, and now, I am doing business in a couple markets in Florida. So yeah, yes, that sucked. But, you know, it's just like anything, man. You can cry about it, you can handle it. And, so I immediately sent mailers out to a different Market.

Speaker 2

40:15

 Well and I like how you when you answer that you compartmentalize them, I mean, you're dealt with each problem, kind of separately. One, one at a time and that's how you can work through those things. What markets in Florida are you in?

Speaker 1

40:28

 Lehigh Acres? I just sent out mailers to labelled and then Cape Coral working on getting into. But yeah, I will tell you. I was just down there. Just gives me an excuse to go down there and there, Just subdivision after subdivision probably on the east side, too or what? Yeah, you side too. But I have only explored the west where Lots were worth noting 10 years ago. They have gone up 10 x and price. There're a friends. I mean, there's so much money to be made down there. Oh my gosh, crazy. Yeah, I agree. I don't think.

Speaker 2

40:59

 It's, I don't think it's ending anytime soon. Maybe particular markets. But yeah, we have got a, I have a couple rentals. One was a non-performing loan that turned into a Buy and Hold we rehabbed it. From a distance and Jacksonville nice. And now that's a cash flowing rental that I have got no money in, and then we did a build to rent in Ocala. So you know, I just think Florida is a great. Still, a great place to be from a real estate investment standpoint.

Speaker 1

41:33

 Yeah, I wrote so on my website, I just write little blurbs about what I am working on and.

Speaker 2

41:38

 If I heard right?

Speaker 1

41:39

 Yes. But really, that's the joke, right? Because obviously, Don't want to follow the herd investors, but following the herd of end users and market. So I am selling the shovels. That's why I think of it in the gold rush. I don't have by and holds down there if I want to buy and hold. Well, in Lehigh Acres, it's very easy to bring on new Supply. So I would either want a huge discount or something to change where you couldn't bring a new Supply so easily, right? So those are two different compartments. Where do I want to keep property versus? Where do I want to just go to make money? I like owning property and very liberal areas because if you operate Correctly. Everything they do. Just pushes up the prices and pushes out the competition. Great. I remember when I moved to Colorado, and I am I don't consider myself on either side of the coin. I am in my own little world, I am a political, but I saw a liberalism coming in droves and I said great, it's gonna push up the prices of my properties. Wonderful. So those are two different compartments where I go to gyms make money versus where I want to keep something. So in Puebla West 200, more Taps left this year, approximately 400 next year, and they're done. So now I am thinking of going and building and keeping Stuff down there.

Speaker 2

42:43

 Got it. Follow. The herd is more of a population. That's where people are moving. Is that, is that what you're?

Speaker 1

42:49

 Getting? Yeah, that's right. Man, it's tongue-in-cheek because you don't want father heard in investing, but that's what I meant? If there're thousands of people moving there with money, that is a great place to go buy and sell land or build houses.

Speaker 2

43:00

 Absolutely awesome. Yeah I mean we can't know what like you said we don't know what the future holds as far as all market conditions, or you know what the government's going to do or But real estate does usually give some kind of warning if you're paying attention and as you get older than 26. I mean you have already got a ton of tools in your tool belt and it just you know as your I can't imagine when you're 36 how many you will have and then it's like, I don't care what happens. I will just pivot, you know, you're going to thrive in any environment. So, thank you. Yeah. Anything to add for our listeners. Um.

Speaker 1

43:42

 Ever it is. You're trying to accomplish. If you haven't gotten started, what's the quickest way to get started and start participating without you know, maxing out your credit cards or risking your house? That's something else. Cuz people equate those two things they think jumping into something without all the information is risky. Well not if you go work for someone in that space or just send out a few mailers with income you can dispose of or what you're right with anything and everything. What is the quickest way to test your hypothesis in a low-risk with high reward? Good potential. Sort of means, that's how I think about it because you won't really learn anything until you start iterating and participating. In whatever it is. You're trying.

Speaker 2

44:21

 To do, you got to take action, right? And there's, there's never, you can't eliminate risk and meaning there's always going to be risk, no matter if you take action or not. And in fact, I think there's big risk and not taking action. Yeah. But that doesn't mean throw caution to the wind, and so I think you said it more eloquently, but It's I couldn't agree more. You got to be out. You got to get out there and make stuff happen, but don't be stupid about it. You know. Yes. You know. Yep. Awesome. All right, Dan this has been really good. We have covered a lot of ground. Can't wait to have you back in, you know, when you're 52. No, I just, you have done so much and your 26. I just blows my mind but never been able to sit. Still, you're clear. Early, an action Taker and but you're clearly analytical as well. You don't just. You also kind of are paying attention to what you're doing and taking lessons from the adversity that you have been through and the successes you have had you can tell that you don't just bury your head in the sand and I mean you clearly got you got it going on as far as your you're an action taker but you. Yeah, I just you putting out a good vibe. So I really think I must There's are going to really benefit from this and speaking from speaking of our listeners, where can they find you online?

Speaker 1

45:48

 Yeah. Dan have her cost.com or Dan have her cost Instagram, Facebook, you will see some business stuff and then lots of pictures of mountains in the.

Speaker 2

45:55

 Ocean. Awesome. You go to stay there? You're going to move to Florida.

Speaker 1

46:00

 Oh no, I love Colorado, and I need to find a beach in Florida. I can surf. Then potentially I will go spend part of the year in Florida, but now snowboarding is my favorite thing in. The world hands down.

Speaker 2

46:10

 Awesome. Hold an, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Jimmy. Absolutely. And to our listeners out there. Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. And that's your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the.

Speaker 1

46:26

 From adversity to abundance podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Speaker 2

46:35

 That helps others find the show.

Speaker 1

46:37

 And we greatly appreciate.

Speaker 2

46:38

 It. Thanks again for listening, and we will catch you in the next. Next episode.