Climbing Rocks -- Not the Corporate Ladder: How and Why Kevin Dahlstrom Walked Away from a 7-Figure Job

Speaker 2

00:00

 This episode is sponsored by the Integrity income fund, which is managed by yours truly and my team at Labrador lending, the Integrity income fund is for accredited investors. It aims to pay an eight percent preferred return and an 8.5% preferred return for early investors. It aims to pay out monthly distributions. There's a 25 thousand dollar minimum and only a one-year lockup. If you are an accredited investor and you're looking to get away from Wall Street, looking to beat inflation and looking for an asset class that is backed by hard physical real estate then look no further than Integrity income fund, check it out at Labrador Lending.com. On this episode. I got a chance to chat with Kevin Dahlstrom of swell. Kevin is just a wealth of knowledge and is super successful. He left a I think multi-million dollar per year job. I am not sure. Exactly. But I know he was making really good money and did a reset. And now started a company called swell, which I think is going to be a huge success. Kevin is one of my favorite follows on. He just seems like he's growing and growing every day. As far as his following, we go through several different types of adversity that he's faced one, which was growing up, a major majorly, dysfunctional family. And then he also spent a decade plus battling some serious health challenges that were it sounds like pretty disabling, and then he went through what many would consider Better to be a midlife crisis where he made it, he derived, I mean had all kinds of material success and found that he wasn't satisfied. And we talked through that and talk through his move from Texas to Boulder Colorado, where he now is able to be much closer to the rocks that he loved loves to climb. He's in phenomenal shape. He's in his early 50s and just like, clearly a go-getter, he's just When you want to listen to definitely, it drops a ton of knowledge in this episode. And then we get into his company swell which is geared towards non-accredited, investors and opening up, you know, opportunities and reducing debt for the non-wealthy which I think is phenomenal. So yeah, ton of information in this one. A lot of inspiring topics that we cover. I know you're going to love it. Inspiring stories of real people. Overcoming incredible odds to live life to the fullest. We are all guaranteed to face.

Speaker 1

02:56

 Hardships, how will we handle the adversity? Join us to be moved by every day.

Speaker 2

03:01

 People who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth Be Inspired as these relatable Heroes, get vulnerable.

Speaker 1

03:09

 And former counterintelligence.

Speaker 2

03:11

 Investigator Jamie Bateman puts his interviewing skills to the test, restore your faith in humanity as you. True Cinderella stories of average people.

Speaker 1

03:21

 Turning surreal struggle and deep.

Speaker 2

03:23

 Despair into booming, businesses and financial Fortune. Take ownership of the life. You are destined to live and turn your adversity into abundance. Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jimmy Bateman. I am very excited. Today, we have a special guest on Kevin Dahlstrom of swell is the founder of swell, Kevin? How are you doing today?

Speaker 1

03:52

 Hey, Jamie, I am doing great, how about yourself excited to chat?

Speaker 2

03:55

 Nice. Yeah, I am doing well, it's a little rainy here in Maryland. I don't know where I think you're in Colorado, right? It's right.

Speaker 1

04:02

 Or as I like to refer to it the best city on Earth Boulder. Colorado, nice.

Speaker 2

04:06

 Nice. At least if you're a rock climber. Yeah. Yeah. Which I am sure will get into. I have seen some crazy pictures of yours on online which actually will say the I sent your Twitter link, your Twitter feed yesterday to somebody I work with, and he's like, I gotta go, I gotta get outside. Yeah, yeah, this guy makes me want to get.

Speaker 1

04:27

 Outside so that's good. That's the message. I am trying to convey so.

Speaker 2

04:30

 Nice. So, yeah, for our audience, who are not familiar with you, would you mind giving Another kind of snapshot of who you are today? You know what? What's the context? Who, what are you into these?

Speaker 1

04:42

 Days? Sure yeah. So I mean I guess since we already talked about where I live I will start there because that's actually a big part of my story, so I grew up in Texas had most of my career in Texas. Four years ago I did a pretty big reboot of my life and moved my family to Boulder Colorado which is where I live now, Big Driver for that was I have been a rock climber most of my life. And but never had the opportunity to live near the rocks for a variety of reasons and so that was kind of the driver and also I was kind of pivoting my career. I had a successful career you know had done a bunch of startups had one that went public had been a CMO at three public companies, and so I done a lot, and I was looking to slow down, I just misguided idea that I wanted to retire and become a full time. Real estate and angel investor, and the truth is that lasted about Three weeks and so, you know, I ended up long story short, I ended up founding another company. It's called swell is a think of it as just a banking app. So it replaces your current checking account some of your credit products and a few other things, and we're what's called a fin tech company. So we're a start-up or venture-backed. We officially created the company January 1st. So we're still very early stage our Which is late. This summer will be rolling it out slowly, but swell for me, really is the culmination of, you know, an entire career spent in financial services. And all the things that I observed over time that were horribly broken, and it's my, my sort of chance to fix it. So, yeah, so yeah. So now, you know, today I have got a wife, two, teenage girls. I do a lot of rock climbing. I run swell, and as I said, I am still a very Reactive real estate and angel.

Speaker 2

06:38

 Investor. Yeah, that's fantastic. I think this is one of those episodes where it's, you know, there's you have so much experience. It's just we're only going to scratch the surface which I think is why you have been back on Chris Powers podcast three times. Yeah.

Speaker 1

06:54

 Yeah, I know, I mean, I am 51 years old, so that's part of it. I have also, you know, run hard my whole life sometimes too hard, so I do feel like I have done a lot. I have seen a lot and so Yeah, happy to go wherever you.

Speaker 2

07:07

 Want. Absolutely no, that's great. Yeah, so obviously from adversity to abundance, and we talked a little bit before we hit record on the couple of topics we made dive into here. So, you mentioned some family history challenges, and again not going to get into all the weeds and everything that may have happened in your life, but I am sure a lot of people come from challenging, family, situations, people, who are listening today. If you would Could you talk about kind of what that was like growing up for?

Speaker 1

07:40

 You? Yeah, yeah as I mentioned before we started recording, I have actually had now that I think about it, three sorts of major adversities in my life, and they came widely spaced. So, the first one which I will talk about first, is you asked, is, you know, kind of my family upbringing. And then the second one was some health challenges. I had my pretty severe health challenges actually in my early 20s and in my mid-40s I had to guess what you Called midlife crisis, which is when I did the big reboot, I kind of realized I was headed down the wrong path, career-wise. And so, you know, starting with the family situation, I mean, look not on didn't totally different from. Probably a lot of your listeners had a bit of a dysfunctional childhood grew up in a small town in Texas. Let us just say there was, you know, there was prison, there was a diction, there was mental illness and so you know, my Escape basically was, I had made good. Grades was pretty smart kid and so my Escape was to get a scholarship to go to college, you know, as far away as I could think which was 100 miles to Austin Texas where I went to school and, you know, I often, you know, there's a quote, I heard one time from Oprah Winfrey. She said, turn your wounds into weapons and I feel like that's kind of the story of my life is, you know, you take these wounds and I certainly wouldn't change anything at this point because I feel like, you know, it's kind of Shade to say but it sort of made me who I am. Yeah, that was kind of how it all started is a little bit of a rough.

Speaker 2

09:13

 Upbringing. Yeah now I mean and you know we have had a bunch of guests on whom have looked at their I have never heard it framed that way on the show yet but that's really good but taking their adversity and looked at it as a, you know, as a positive or a strength, you know, forced that they can use. I am curious with the family situation. How long, you know, obviously you're not Celebrating that at the time. Especially I am you know if your younger and you're less mature as far as you know, mental maturity, right? What was that process? Like from a mental standpoint, you know, as far as interpreting, the rough conditions to be used for your advantage. How did that process work? Mentally.

Speaker 1

09:56

 Yeah, well, and by the way, I am not going to represent at all that this is the right way to deal with issues like this. I probably could have used some help and some wisdom, but the way I Out with it was to compartmentalize. You know, I sort of, you know, frankly crammed all that stuff. Deep down inside for the next 20 years, put my head down and just was determined that wasn't the path that I was going to take. And so it wasn't for me, you know, that phase of my life was if any probably more than anything was just motivation to do really well in school, get a good job and frankly to the extreme, you know, probably you know, one of the challenges I have had all of my life, and I am getting better at it. It is, you know, stopping and smelling the Roses like honestly it sounds hard to believe but you know I mentioned that I am 51 years old, right? Only recently like I mean in like the past year have I been able to kind of look around and go? Wow. Like look at all this cool stuff. I have built like honestly it sounds crazy but right. Been Never one to like to kind of stop and smell the roses or even pay attention to the progress. It was always like this. The next thing. What's the next thing?

Speaker 2

11:04

 Sure gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, personally, I just don't really believe in retirement in the traditional sense. I mean, you know, everyone's situation is different, so I am not judging anyone who's retired. That's not the point. But I am like you, I mean, I am not that as much of a hard charger probably, but I don't anticipate actually retiring because I just think you need something, everyone needs a purpose or something to move toward, you know, and be something.

Speaker 1

11:31

 Completely agree. Yeah, it's like I always use the analogy of sharks. If we stop swimming, we suffocate And you know, I have written a lot about this is like that's the kind of trap that people fall into is this idea that, you know if I can just get to the Finish Line, I will be happy and there is no Finish Line. The only thing that makes you happy is the challenge and it's really success to me looks like being able to control the challenges. You undertake so like you know, controlling your time, controlling the challenges, you Undertake. And you know, that's that, you know, I mentioned this kind of reboot that I did and that was really the impetus for it and now If you look at my life today, I think I have got a, I feel I have got a great balance. I mean if I often joke that if you ask my friends, they think I never work. If you ask my family, they think I always work. And so there's probably the truth is somewhere in between and both are true. But I try to just blend everything together and I don't plan on changing anything for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2

12:28

 Thanks. Yeah, it sounds great. It's a good way to live. So do you still have just to wrap up the family situation? Do you still I have ties with your family or have you completely moved on or what does that look like from a personal standpoint?

Speaker 1

12:44

 More? The latter, I very minimal ties at this point, but, you know, it's something I really want to repair. As a matter of fact, I recorded I have a new podcast myself and I recorded one yesterday with someone who had come through a similar situation, and we talked for probably 30 minutes about forgiveness, and okay, that's kind of fundamental to the human Experience and sure. So yeah that's something I need to get better at and heal it. But frankly I mean you know I really wasn't even able to talk about the stuff until a few years ago.

Speaker 2

13:18

 Gotcha. Okay. Now that's so what's the name of your podcast?

Speaker 1

13:22

 It's called compounding. Yeah. Actually the first episode just dropped today. So.

Speaker 2

13:27

 I did I signed up. I got your email about the first episode. So I am excited to listen to that. So I know you have some awesome, you know. An expansive and Powerful Network successful Network. So I think definitely want to check that out. Myself, moving to the second challenge, major challenge. I know there's been hundreds of challenges you face but the second kind of bucket. We talked about the medical challenge. Yeah. And I think that's the one that kind of caused me to reach out to you. Because you posted right? We did a little bit about this. A threat on Twitter about this. We would you speak to the medical challenges that?

Speaker 1

14:06

 Faced. Yeah. So you know I it's still super Vivid in my mind because it was a long journey, you know, I was always a very athletic vibrant healthy kid and you know, was in college thing. I was 20 years old and I remember distinctly one day, I got up, I was studying at the library and got up and just felt super dizzy and nauseous and not you know you don't think anything of that. You go home you rest up but that began sort of nightmare. They're of progressed my health rapidly declined. And you know what's interesting is, Jamie, what? I ended up dealing with is very similar to what people describe today, as long coated. So it was things like I was short of breath, crushing fatigue, and it actually did, the diagnosis did end up being that. I had a pretty severe viral infection, but it just it wrecked. My body wrecked my hormonal system, it, you know, it. I was having you know, anxiety. Panic attack. It was bad. I was essentially bedridden for a good period of time. Had to drop out of school for a while. So it was rough. And the truth is, you know, I was getting no answers from medicine. And, so I kind of took matters into my own hands and over time, you know, the again back to this idea of turning your wounds into weapons or finding the Silver. Linings, the tweet that you're referring to the thread that you're referring to was sort of my journey. And what I learned along the way was, oh, I was doing it all wrong, anyway. And I actually have The opportunity not only to recover my health but to become even healthier than I would have been otherwise. Hmm. So that was a huge opportunity, huge breakthrough for man, and I was able to do it. I mean you know. So I consider myself today to be you know, I got completely cured and I consider myself to be exceptionally.

Speaker 2

15:56

 Healthy. Yeah, I have seen some yeah, crazy pictures of your rock-climbing. Definitely look, look healthy from the outside. You know that's my formal Dr. Opinion from across the over the figure.

Speaker 1

16:12

 Like if you know rock climbing has grade so you know how difficult your climbing and there's a certain grade like around 513 where it starts to become like an elite level of climbing and I literally have always thought to myself like as long as I could climb 513, there's probably nothing. Majorly wrong with me. Things have to be working, right? To be able to climb a certain level. And so absolute, there is, there is something to that.

Speaker 2

16:36

 So when you sew and you had to drop out of school for a short period of.

Speaker 1

16:40

 How long, watch out for a semester, but sort of limped across the Finish Line in a very, you know, he will State and even in early in my early career. But you know it took about ten years but slowly I regained my health bit by bit but it was rough for a.

Speaker 2

16:59

 while. So I mean, and I am just, I was reason. I brought this school up again, is because you said school was kind of your ticket out. From, so it's almost two problems in one. If, if you don't get that degree, you know, then what. But so over 10 years and just curious, like, what did you determine if you took matters into your own hands or kind of? Well what did you learn from a medical standpoint about your condition?

Speaker 1

17:24

 Again it's very similar to what? So what's happening with long covid? If you have heard of that is people are getting covid. Then they have these symptoms that remain for months years we don't even No. And the medical community is at a complete loss. For what to do about, they really don't have an answer. They're people who don't even believe it's real. That they think it's all in people's heads, and I heard some of that in mind, in my case, I had a really tough bout with Epstein-Barr virus which is the virus behind mono. Okay. If you have heard of that, yeah, but it can become chronic. And in my case, it became chronic and it corrects. These viral infections that become chronic. They create a host of really nasty problems. And the problem that again mainstream medicine has almost no answers for these things. You know, actually the answers that mainstream medicine has make you worse. They might make you feel better for a little bit, but over the long term, they make you worse, and so I dodged a lot of bullets through that process. And as I said, took matters in my own hands educated myself and did, you know, did it the hard way, the long hard way? But it was the better way over.

Speaker 2

18:30

 Time. Gotcha. And you think now because of that you're actually healthier than you would have been, you're saying Because I.

Speaker 1

18:36

 Meant you approached it. I am not trying to brag but I don't know. I have never met someone my age who I thought was more fit or.

Speaker 2

18:43

 Else, right? So yeah, got it. But you think you wouldn't have been at this level because of zero chance zero Giada. Yeah, I mean I was.

Speaker 1

18:52

 On the standard path like not sharing. Well not exercising properly or regularly. Sure it was this, you know, the same path as a lot of my friends were on.

Speaker 2

19:02

 Got it. Well, let us dive into the third one, the midlife crisis. I am 46. So tell me, you tell me what I am about to go through?

Speaker 1

19:12

 Yeah. Well we think it's a little bit different for everybody and sure my favorite thing to say about the midlife crisis is people think of a midlife crisis as oh, Jamie changed. He became something different. And what the research says and what philosophers like Carl Jung say is that it's actually the exact opposite. What happens in midlife is we shed these masks that we wear? So we Through our life, we accumulate these masks that help us survive in society, and they're not bad things. You haven't had these masks to thrive, right? But eventually those Mass do come off and you have to be mindful of that. And in my case, I mentioned that I had sort of because of my childhood, I would put my head down. I was just executing, like someone told me like, take that mountain and I would take that mountain, and I was pursuing what Society told me success was so, yeah, I made it up the corporate ladder was it, you know, in the c-suite Eat for a long time, with some very bit, you multi-billion dollar companies, founded companies, had them, go public all the things, although like things you like, the bucket list items, people talk about, right? But I found that like, that was not, that was not fulfilling. What I realized over time was, I think most people go on this journey is, you know, at the end of the day, what, what do you treasure should? It's relationships and experiences. Yeah. Right now, I wasn't investing in those. And so, I was around my mid-40s probably around the age, you are now and I just basically hit the reboot button. You know, part a big part of it was moving to a place that was more inspiring to me. I have a whole set of beliefs around like where you choose to live is as important as your choice of life partner, but people put very little thought into it. They sort of just stay wherever they happen to be, but you're literally immersed in the place. You live 24/7 and it impacts everything you do. So being in a place that's Inspiring and for me, closer to the Rocks, was a huge part of that. And then, just cleaning up some things in my personal life. And, you know, I quit, you know, my friends thought I was crazy but I quit a, you know, I was a made man at a big public company and I quit a job with, you know, compensation well into the seven figures every year like made a bunch of crazy changes. At least, from the outside perspective, but put me in a way better place. So your chest forward to today. I have got a startup that I am really passionate about. I have got a pretty Balanced Life, you know, my kids are thriving, so I am much happier, much better place.

Speaker 2

21:44

 So you're what I am hearing is you took off the masks and this is the real. You, I mean not is that essentially what you're saying?

Speaker 1

21:51

 Yeah, I mean I took when the mass started coming off, I was looking at my life going, whose life is this? Like whom is this guy? Kevin, I don't even recognize this guy. Like, I literally had my worst nightmare which was, we had this big mansion? In a suburb of Dallas a concrete, jungle Terrible Weather far, from all the things I am passionate about didn't wasn't near any close. Friends didn't have great relationships, and I was like, what have I done? And although, from the outside, it looked like winning it, look like a dream, you had it right, people? Right for me it was a nightmare and so that's what we blew up.

Speaker 2

22:28

 Got it. And your how did your wife and your family, react to the change.

Speaker 1

22:33

 It ain't easy. I mean, from their perspective, you are Changing and so, and I will be honest, you know, that a lot of the change I had to force upon my family. They weren't asking for it, they weren't even necessarily on board with it, but, you know, thank goodness. I have a really supportive, you know, wife who I just sell it, we just celebrated our 25th anniversary two weeks ago. Thanks, that's and my kids were great. And I think now, you know, fast-forward, four years down the road. And I think everyone in my family would say that this reset was the right thing.

Speaker 2

23:05

 For, Right move. Gotcha. Awesome. That's, that's fantastic. So before we get into this well because I definitely want to talk about swell, let us let someone to fire off a few kinds of more rapid fire questions for you. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you?

Speaker 1

23:26

 Wow. These are I can tell these are gonna be hard questions, just.

Speaker 2

23:29

 Answer. So this one, I will say yesterday, I did a recording, and we had to move on. He.

Speaker 1

23:35

 Couldn't. He said, he will I am gonna answer it. The problem with me is Jamie, I like to give a really thoughtful. Good answer. So, what's one thing? And people misunderstand About Me, Maybe if people.

Speaker 2

23:46

 Look at you from the outside, I mean, obviously we already said it looked like you had success and you weren't happy with that. Could be one. But.

Speaker 1

23:53

 Here's one that I think applies to not only me, but a lot of people, you know, I am a high-energy guy. I have very strong views about things and people sort of, Often like associate that with like confidence or even arrogance or certainty. Yeah. But that's usually the opposite is actually true. So when you meet someone who has that style, it's often that they're like, the way I like to test my thinking, is, by positing something. And then having people push back on it and often, especially when you're the CEO, you say something. And people just take it as the gospel because I sound. So confident, is that sexy one thing? People misunderstand about me. Is that Often. When I say things I am just I am looking for feedback. I am looking for pushback. I really value. Push.

Speaker 2

24:41

 Back. Yeah, they used to I was in the military and that used to be a thing where it's like the, you know, somebody high ranking officer would say something off the cuff, just looking for a discussion and the whole organization runs with it as a command like know he or she didn't even mean that as an order just as just a discussion Point. Sounds like you're passionate, it's passion and, and Euro. Into this debate. Yeah, yeah. My.

Speaker 1

25:08

 Style is, you know, strong opinions loosely held is and not everyone knows how to work with people who operate that.

Speaker 2

25:16

 Way. Sure, what would you say? Is one of your biggest failures and what would you what have you learned from that experience?

Speaker 1

25:24

 I have been asked this question. A lot of people ask this question and yeah, the truth is its very hard for me to answer that one because I am such an optimist time. I met like DNA is wired to be an optimist. So I have got plenty of failures in my life objectively but I just never have chosen to look at it that way, you know. But you know in the spirit of giving an answer, right? I would say you know one failure is definitely been like not repairing, some of my relationships with my, my family, from my childhood, I have to this day, still compartmentalised, some of that, and sort of segments, my life accordingly. And then of course, like anybody who's had a lot of At-bats in business. You know, I have been involved in starting at least half a dozen companies and no one bats, a thousand. So I have had some spectacular failures, but again at the time, it felt pretty miserable. But in retrospect, that's where all the Learning Happens. Sure. So, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, everybody's got failures but I think there is something to this idea of like chew. If you're going to play the long game, yeah, you choose to view those as, you know, speed bumps. Now clearly If you have repeated failures, you got to sort of.

Speaker 2

26:38

 Re-evaluate an if there's a pattern there you might want to do some analysis and adjust your, you know what you're doing? I.

Speaker 1

26:44

 Guess I was lucky that I was pretty good at making course Corrections when I got my no one got my teeth kicked in. I learned to like move my head a little bit.

Speaker 2

26:52

 Right? That makes sense. I think that's one of the kids. It's one of the hard things to the hardest things to figure out in business and in life is when it. When am I quitting is when is this viewed as quitting versus just changing course or taking feedback? And you know I still moving forward but maybe in a slightly different way or different path. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self some advice what would it be?

Speaker 1

27:17

 100% this is an easy one real estate to.

Speaker 2

27:21

 Work. Oh my.

Speaker 1

27:22

 Gosh I didn't understand the whole real estate World until I was in my I guess early 40s. Now maybe a little late 30s, early 40s like 10 or so years ago. And the good news is that was incredible timing to start. Eating and healthy family and some of the categories I invested in or some of the asset classes gosh, honestly. If I had known how the whole real estate World works yeah and with my mind for finance I might have gone down that path and made that a.

Speaker 2

27:52

 Career, got it. Yeah. That's you mentioned that before we hit record, as far as the investment, some of the Investments you're in, you said you have been an LP and numerous deals. Can you speak to that a little bit more?

Speaker 1

28:03

 Yes, I have been doing real estate. Ingesting as an LP exclusively. I have considered be doing my own deals for a while and never made sense to me. Just I have done so well as an LP. Sure. But yeah, I do I would say I have done probably 30 real estate Investments as an LP probably. 80% of that is multifamily still huge on that asset class. Sure, I have done some industrial and dabbled in like few other tiny amounts in other asset classes. But yeah, I enjoy it. It's done. You know those Investments have crushed it.

Speaker 2

28:42

 Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1

28:44

 Like everybody else over the past 10 years. Yeah.

Speaker 2

28:48

 I am curious how like for the listeners out there who either are on either side of that fence meeting their GPS or LPS, they're either the operator or they're going out and finding passive investors. Yeah. How do you how did you connect with those operators at the general? Yeah. Is it just through your.

Speaker 1

29:07

 Network? Yeah, you know that's the so you know this will be a good segue into as well because that's one of the problems we're trying to suck. So there's some big problems with all private Equity investment in real estate is one type of private Equity investing, you know, one is just it's an incredibly fragmented opaque market and so it's all based on relationships and so sure. Most people don't have the connections that I was fortunate to have. The second thing is you have to be an accredited investor to invest in these deals work. And the third thing is even if you are credited, a lot of the top guys have a hundred thousand two hundred fifty thousand dollar minimums. I had invested in one deal that had a 500,000 dollar minimum. Even if you're credited, most people don't have that kind of money sitting around to invest in one deal and so there's a lot of problems with it and so My Philosophy has always been if you get the right GP, if you invest with the top, the best of the best GPS, the rest takes care of itself. I mean that Yeah, I have a strong preference for certain asset classes. I have a strong preference for certain geographies. I absolutely look at the deal structures. Do some due diligence? So, you know, at this point I am a pretty sophisticated, like, I am probably nearly on par with the GPS on investing with, in terms of my knowledge and say I can expertise, but here's the thing 99% of people, if not more, don't have any of that, right? And so on of the things we're trying to do at Swell, which is my banking Up is enabled access to that type of private Equity deal to everyone? That's awesome. Yeah, I will .

Speaker 2

30:44

 Just products II just chime in a little bit here because I run a couple of smaller mortgage note funds, they're both 506, C s-- and you know, I am familiar with what you're talking about in general. If it's unfortunate because I have a bunch of people I work with who are not accredited and I would love to take them on as investors and you know, there are ways to do it. But Frankly, the way it's set up the way the code is set up, it's just not worth it in my situation. It's not worth it to, you know, to try to put together a reggae fund or even a 506 B, where you can take on a non-accredited investors, it still makes more sense for me to go with a 506 C, so it's all accredited and.

Speaker 1

31:27

 Everybody makes it's not worth. It's never worth it. So we are two businesses math. We're that is are going to be a core part of our business. We're You know we're about a hundred thousand dollars into setting up a reggae fund, that's how we're going to do. Girls looking at interval funds which I think are actually a better solution. An interval fund though, you're looking at. Yeah, just Google interval fund. It's a new relatively new structure that allows you to both accredited unaccredited investors to invest. It has fewer restrictions than a reggae. The only gotcha is that you have to allow a certain percentage of people to cash out on a regular basis that's why it's called an interval fun. Okay, it's a great vehicle. The problem with the inner whole fund is you're talking half a million dollars in a year plus to get that set up. So most people don't want to go down that path. But a lot of the big money managers are actually setting up interval.

Speaker 2

32:20

 Funds, interesting? I have to check that out. Yeah, that's just as a quick anecdote. I mean, I couldn't agree more with what you're saying about. Just most people, you know, look life's never going to be 100% fair, right? So but the same time, It's just, it's just not fair that these opportunities are not presented to the average person. Might my brother, for example, is it, he works at a credit union. He's very, he's been a mortgage broker for many years. You know, he's very familiar with real estate and finance and I will just throw them. Throw them under the bus here, he's not accredited right? But he's frustrated because it's like he knows more than like, you probably know more than a lot of The Operators, do you know, as far as his?

Speaker 1

33:04

 Heels its economic return. ISM. So in many areas of Finance you have politicians who actually don't know anything about Finance who are saying we know better. What's good for you than you do? And the biggest, the biggest joke is that your brother? Is it your brother? My brother, your brother can't invest and a rock-solid real estate deal, but he can go buy as much crypto as he wants as, yes, you know? It's insane. It's yes, they the accreditation laws need to be, you know, removed. Move and so people can make their own decisions. Yes, there's always fraud, but there's also ways to deal with that are more effective than simply blocking every non-credit. Investor. Because the reality is that, you know, I am sure you have seen the same thing. I mean, if you look at my portfolio. Yeah, I have performed at well over 2x. What the SP is returned over the past 10 years?

Speaker 2

33:58

 Right? Yeah. That's life-changing. Sure. Absolutely. No. It's just like if you inherit a couple million dollars that doesn't Make you somehow write a knowledgeable investor. But anyway, what's that? Speaking of your business, what's a challenge that you're facing right now, in your business? One of the main.

Speaker 1

34:15

 Challenges? Well, I mean, look, we started swell January 1st of this year. So, yeah, you know, the list of challenges as long as we're almost definitionally, everything's a challenge because we're trying to disrupt, you know, a trillion dollar industry with lots of entrenched competitors. So sure literally by definition our business. Plan is a challenge.

Speaker 2

34:37

 So what are you, what are you going to do? After this podcast? What challenge are you going to tackle immediately after this, this?

Speaker 1

34:42

 And actually record, right? After this, I am going to on a recruiting meeting, a meeting with a software engineer at a coffee shop here. Okay, so yeah, my everyday looks different for me. That's actually what I love about this state. Like this early stage is literally every day is completely different. So just to give you a sense tomorrow, I am going to be working in the morning, and I am going rock climbing in the afternoon Sunday. La, I am recording a podcast with a big, big real estate Jeep, Keith Wasserman if you follow him on. Yeah, so I am recording a podcast with Keith Wasserman on Monday. Then I fly back. I am starting to start prepping for a board meeting. I mean, it's just a never ending stream but it's one thing after the.

Speaker 2

35:24

 Other sure. So now just so that you have already spoken to this a good bit but what is swell look like for the average person? Not right. Now, but the end, the.

Speaker 1

35:36

 End goal. Yes. So why does it matter? So yeah, look there're three components to swell, there's swell cash, which is the checking account swell credit, which is a line of credit that works. Similarly, to credit cards, and they're swell compound eyes. I talked a little bit about compound, compound is our investment vehicle that basically allows an investor to invest as little as the thousand dollars and eventually even less. But still get into these exclusive private Market, real estate deals. We actually already did our first deal It was a we did we got a two million dollar allocation in a just an incredible industrial real estate deal in Texas and swell members aggregated dollars and made that investment. But it all happens to one. Click in the swell app. So it's super simple. You don't have to, you can understand as much or as little as you want to the second piece, you know, I will talk about us. Well, cash, it's our checking account. It's got a lot of great features, but frankly, it's similar to your Bank of America checking account, but there're no fees and no, no evil stuff. If that the big Banks throw at you but that's kind of like the checking account, mainly exist. Just so you have a transactional vehicle, you have a place for money to sit in fdic-insured account, swell credit, is intended to replace your credit card. So, the our mantra for swell credit as we build our, is half off your credit cards. So we're building the way we're approaching. And designing the product, most of my background is in consumer credit, and we have a team of about 15 people who have An unbelievable amount of experience. In consumer credit, the way we're building swell is that we will operate on very thin margins. And we're very good at the data science, required to underwrite customers, and so, we will be able to take a customer who is like a most people don't know this, but a typical American might have eight ten twelve thousand dollars in credit card debt, at an 18 percent or higher rate will take a customer like that, and we will knock that down to 10 or 12 percent. We make, we make good money, our bank Partners, happy and the consumer wins in a huge way. And so, the two hooks, when we go out to markets, well, the two hooks that people will be interested in, they will either come in to swell because they really want to get their debt under control and pay less interest, or they will come in because they're interested in doing some of this in real estate investing. They have heard about, and so we think those are both powerful disruptive models that have never really been done in banking and so it's a huge.

Speaker 2

38:05

 Cindy, that's awesome. So in you have launched, June 1st, January 1st. Excuse me. You started it. But when will it be actually ready for the larger?

Speaker 1

38:16

 Basically? You know, I get asked that a lot because when people hear about it, you know, we have got a big waitlist, thousands of people on our wait list, but the thing is, we're rolling this because of the way swells design, we're rolling it out, invitation only, so we, we will next month, we will be launching the app will be in the App Store but you, if you download it, If you don't have an invitation code, you won't be able to get in. Unfortunately, the best thing to do. If any listeners want to be part of the journey, is to sign up at our website swell money.com. Join our community. You will get a founding member number anyone with a founding member. Number will get Priority Access to swell and there's a ton of benefits that come with it. You can't. But after we launched publicly next month, there will be no more founding member numbers. So I encourage everybody to go sign up today. Awesome.

Speaker 2

39:05

 I did that yesterday. So I guess I got in the last minute. So on swell. Why, why hasn't anybody done this?

Speaker 1

39:14

 before? Well, look the banking's a very good business. I mean, you look at the top four Banks alone, this is blow your mind. The top four Banks.

Speaker 2

39:24

 Aluminum. We tried it says that Chase Bank of America, who are the other Wells Fargo, okay. Morgan got any.

Speaker 1

39:31

 Morgan Chase is One Bank of America Wells.

Speaker 2

39:33

 Fargo, it's fine.

Speaker 1

39:35

 I can't remember the for. It's like the fourth before, just those four last year in profit, not Revenue a hundred and twenty billion dollars in profit. That's insane. And they represent roughly half of the consumer banking market yet, if you do the reef, you do consumer surveys. Nobody loves their bank. They hate their Banks, everybody hates their bank. And so, it's a, it's, you'd Wonder, like, why haven't these guys innovated more? The reality is, they haven't had to Their technology is horrible. They died terrible service. They have got a great business, and they have been the only game in town what's happening with this fin Tech Revolution is, and we're in the earliest stages like we're in. We're in like the first minute of the first inning companies like swell, or going to start focusing on very specific customer step. So we're not trying to build swell for everybody. Our customers, what we call a striver, it's a very specific psychographic of a type of person. You see a lot of them on Twitter who Aren't wealthy. They're probably not accredited, but they have good jobs, and they really want to get ahead. They actually willing to do work to get ahead and it's a very specific type of person that we receive really kind of wrapped her arms around and but that's tens of millions of people in the US.

Speaker 2

40:53

 Interesting. Yeah that's I work with you know, we do mortgage notes and dealing with different borrowers and I don't deal with them directly usually, but that's one of the hardest things in my industry is figuring out. Who you know who because I can't, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, right? And it's like, there has to be that on that other on that borrowers, side or that individual side. Something.

Speaker 1

41:17

 That trusted I come from lending, I am huge on personal responsibility. Yeah, that's why I love our customers so much. I love the Strivers because they always do the right thing. Where's they're smart enough to know how to do the right thing, but they're not Finance Geeks like me, and so they just need a little bit of.

Speaker 2

41:34

 Help. Sure. Sure, absolutely. No, that's fantastic. I love it. As we start to move toward wrapping up here. What's, what is a book? Or two? That you'd recommend for my audience?

Speaker 1

41:47

 Yeah, I will tell you what, I am reading right now and why. So I am reading a book called Anna, which is the biography of Anna Wintour, the longtime Editor in Chief of Vogue magazine. Okay, might say, what the heck does that have to do with anything in your life? Kevin, but, but what I would tell your listeners is, I love reading biographies of anyone on the extreme. So you know extreme athletes like Lance Armstrong stream business people like Steve Jobs or Anna Wintour because I think you learn from people on the extremes and honestly you know I am not trying to plug my podcast but my podcast. Sure. That's the entire thesis of my podcast is I am using my network to meet with people who are literally the best in their fields, right? Not because we want to emulate everything they do, but we want to learn some of the secrets that we can apply in our life. Sure. So you learn from people who are out on the.

Speaker 2

42:43

 Extremes. Yeah absolutely. As I think the podcast is a great way to go. What a way there? A moment that why you decided to, when you decided to start a podcast because you just launched it, right?

Speaker 1

42:55

 I was just, I was joking to my, so I am got this. Well, you know, my producer Johnny.

Speaker 2

42:59

 Yeah, Johnny I was.

Speaker 1

43:00

 Joking to him. That honestly it's like it's an excuse to fly around the country and you could read.

Speaker 2

43:06

 That's awesome.

Speaker 1

43:07

 because one thing we're doing that's kind of interesting is I am not doing any through Zoom. So I am going like that's why I am going to LA on Sundays because I am going to do every single podcast in person because I think there's a certain magic that happens. In fact most of them I am doing them in the person's home and there's a certain it's a different vibe when you're sitting in someone's home with.

Speaker 2

43:29

 Then. Yeah absolutely. Well if you want to have me out to Boulder I will happily. I am just That's no, I couldn't agree more, that's really good. But in general, the podcasts is fantastic. I have learned so much by doing a podcast and you know, just directly from the guests. But then many ways it benefits me and many other people. And that's the whole, that's a, she never, and that's what it is. It is, I mean, but, you know, it's both. I mean, I do want to add value to the listeners but it's, it absolutely adds value to me personally, and hopefully you get something out of it as well.

Speaker 1

44:07

 You know, they always say that the best way to learn something is to teach it. So, what I get out of doing podcasts like this is it makes me get my stuff together like when you ask a question. Yeah. I get, you know, you get better over time at articulating things more clearly. So it's like sharpening the knife a little.

Speaker 2

44:24

 Bit. You know. Absolutely. So on your show where you go to have, I know you said experts and extreme you know, producers or but is there a specific Niche industry or.

Speaker 1

44:35

 That's the beauty of it. Okay, so I met my first episode which dropped today is with the guy who's a Serial entrepreneur and high stakes poker player. My second episode is with the most famous person in the advertising industry and icon. My third episode is with a guy that runs a multi-billion dollar real estate fund. The next one is with professional athletes. So it runs the gamut because what we're looking for is like whatwhat are the secrets you have learned about life? And what's funny though? Jamie is honestly, the industry doesn't matter, like the lessons people learned. I have already seeing this presence people have learned are all the.

Speaker 2

45:14

 Same. Yeah. And just with regard to my podcast, I was co-hosting the Good. Deeds note investing podcast, it was great. I loved it and it's very a very Niche space and at the end of the day there's only so many people that really want to get into the Weeds on mortgage. Note it best investing who like if you really want to go down Path of specific foreclosure law in this County, North Carolina. There only your immediately, narrowing your listener base, and those were great. But the episodes that I really liked, were where we had guests on who were slightly outside of that Niche space. And but like what you're saying, applies the principles still apply across all Industries, where.

Speaker 1

45:58

 All people any story, so, and I can geek out on the stuff, but yes, I had yesterday. Is your the most celebrated decorated accomplished person in the advertising industry that's a living human, right? And but, but what he loved about the conversation yesterday was after I introduced him, the last line of my introduction was, but we're not going to talk about any of that. We literally talked about none of his accomplishments. Yeah, we talked about was his life like jareth you learned. You have done all this cool stuff. Right? What have you learned through all of that? And I will tell you this. In this podcast, I think this podcast is going to open a lot of eyes when it comes out the second one because it went off the deep end in a huge rally. Oh yeah. So.

Speaker 2

46:44

 Can you say, who it was? It's going to come out.

Speaker 1

46:45

 So I am gonna, I am gonna keep that a secret for.

Speaker 2

46:47

 Now. Alright. Alright, fair enough. No, I couldn't agree more that, I mean, you know, with, with my show, I am trying to make sure I highlight enough of the successes and adversity. Frankly to kind of lure people in because if you're just an average guy, nobody, nobody cares, right? Yeah. But the End of the day it's those other things that are so. So valuable the lessons and, you know.

Speaker 1

47:10

 Well and I think you're, you know, the basis for your show is a good one because ultimately, that is where all the learnings happen is through the struggles. In fact, one of the questions I asked in all of my, my interviews. Yeah. Am I always ask about failure the same question? You asked about right? Like how did that shape who you are today?

Speaker 2

47:30

 Sure. All right. What's one question? You wish I would ask but I haven't.

Speaker 1

47:33

 Asked and you liked Yeah, a.

Speaker 2

47:37

 Don't worry. We're almost wrapped up here.

Speaker 1

47:40

 You know, you didn't ask anything about rock climbing, probably because you don't have a little.

Speaker 2

47:43

 Talk about that. I don't know a lot about. I have gone one time indoors. It was fun. You know, I thought there were guys over there doing the boulder thing that I really know. Almost nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 1

47:54

 Well I will do my quick plug for rock climbing and why I love it, and we can wrap up, but yeah, but you know, rock climbing is one of those things that, you know, for whatever reason, the first time I ever did it captured my imagination. Nation. I don't think I have gone more than two weeks in the past 25 years without climbing, either in a gym or outside. And I am and now that I am in Boulder, I climb four to five days a week. What I love about it is, it's the one thing I have ever done, that makes me completely forget about the rest of the world, but also, I am heavily biased toward addition. Some ways, it's the king of Fitness modes because there's no other activity. That combines power strength, endurance, balance, Nation all the different elements like yeah, I have listed them out before. There's like 10 different. Literally. There's no other sport that combines them that way. Yeah. And it also takes you to these amazing places so there's like nothing not to like about it. Right? Obviously, I am heavily biased but it is there's a reason it is the fastest growing youth sport by percentage right by numbers.

Speaker 2

48:57

 But percentage interesting. Yeah when you were talking about gymnastics is obviously a good one is, you know, that's almost cheating because it's like so many different events in one. Yeah. As far as the elements of Fitness, there are a lot there, I think, but that's yeah, I hadn't really thought of it like that.

Speaker 1

49:16

 Here's a, here's a head-scratcher for your listeners to take away from this as we wrap up, is what I always say is we can debate what mode of Fitness or what sport is best. But one real litmus test for that is look at the best people in that sport or that Fitness mode and ask yourself, is that Who I want to be, do I want to look like that, right? And I sustain it for the rest of my life. And so, to be honest, I am going to get, I am gonna probably offend some people here. That's my issue with Crossfit crossed. It was a big rage, but look at the top CrossFit athletes. That's not what most people want to look like. And frankly, it's not sustainable for a lifetime. On the, on the flip side, you know, you're right, look at the top, you look at the top climbers. That's the type of body type. Most people want, you know, lean and strong and thick and you can climb for Your life for.

Speaker 2

50:06

 Life. Yeah, that's really good. Now, I few episodes ago, I actually not out yet as of today, but I kind of lumped somehow I love Dave Ramsey and Crossfit together because I sent it, you know, a kind of blasted them both and I used to do. I used to be fans of both of them, to be honest, but I used to do CrossFit and it's at the end of the day, it's they don't take into account your personal situation, right? They just here's the wad, the workout of the day, go do it, you know? And I felt like feel like Dave Ramsey does the same thing, where you know, And actually, listen, he's just applying blanket advice, and he not that, he cares. What I have to.

Speaker 1

50:42

 Say. And in both cases, a lot of advice is just plain bad.

Speaker 2

50:45

 Luck. It's just bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1

50:46

 He powerlifting, you know. Yeah, most people is not the Reps.

Speaker 2

50:50

 Reps under time. Yeah. That's not a good idea. But awesome. Kevin. And I know we have a hard stop. I know you're extremely busy. I really do appreciate you taking the time and you know I am hoping we can bring you back on at a later date to see. You know, the get an update on swell. I definitely like I said, I signed up already, so I am excited to be a part of the movement. I think it's fantastic. What you're doing. So where can our listeners find you online if they like to reach out?

Speaker 1

51:19

 Yeah, well first of all, thank you. This is actually a really enjoyable discussion. I do a lot of these in as I was saying, before we got on the, on the server recording, there's a spectrum. We did a really good job. Yeah, I am easy to find online, you know, my company's that's well money.com but most I have gotten to know me through my Twitter account, which is at Camp 4. So it's at CA MP and the number four on Twitter. DM me. I answer all.

Speaker 2

51:45

 DM, so yeah, your answers mine, I do it. I do recommend people. Follow you on Twitter, you do put out some very valuable information and threads and it's a one in one of my favorite. Follow us on Twitter, for sure. So much. Absolutely, so me and to our listeners out there, we really thank you as well for spending your Valuable resource with us, which is your time, Kevin, thanks a lot. Take care, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the form.

Speaker 1

52:14

 Adversity to abundance podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast.

Speaker 2

52:23

 That helps others find the show and we greatly appreciate.

Speaker 1

52:25

 It. Thanks again for listening, and we will catch you in the next episode.