Bipolar General: A Combat Leader’s Journey from Undiagnosed Disorder to Sustained Wellness with Maj. Gen. Gregg Martin

0:00 Speaker 0: This episode is a little bit different than Speaker 0: many of the other episodes we've had. Speaker 0: We have on Greg Martin, the bipolar general, Speaker 0: Greg, Greg is a retired two star general, Speaker 0: from the army and Speaker 0: had, I think, a thirty year career in the army and Speaker 0: has dealt with debilitating mental health challenges, Speaker 0: which I think is very relevant, very real for, you know, many Speaker 0: of us, especially in in the entrepreneurial space. Speaker 0: He mentioned that, I think it was twenty percent of people are currently dealing Speaker 0: with themselves a mental health disorder, and Speaker 0: eighty percent of the population is dealing with Speaker 0: at least their own mental health disorder or a family member who has Speaker 0: something.

0:51 Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: he gets pretty specific about a lot of the struggles that he went through. Speaker 0: He spent essentially ten years being misdiagnosed or Speaker 0: undiagnosed, and he has type one Speaker 0: bipolar disorder. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: we dive into how his mania actually helped him Speaker 0: professionally and how he was, really a hard charging, army Speaker 0: officer and was just crushing it professionally. Speaker 0: And and then how things really went went south for him. Speaker 0: And we get very real on this one for sure. Speaker 0: He's a West Point grad Army Ranger School grad, Speaker 0: has a PhD, and, obviously, now is an expert in Speaker 0: dealing with mental health.

1:41 Speaker 0: He talks about his five ps that he's come up with. Speaker 0: We're not I'm not gonna go through those right now, but the five critical Speaker 0: principles Speaker 0: that he uses to get through and that all of us need to get Speaker 0: through any type of adversity really but specifically mental health Speaker 0: challenges. Speaker 0: This is, this is, like I said, it's it's it's very real and I'll Speaker 0: be honest. Speaker 0: It's it's I dive a little bit into how we've been dealing with something Speaker 0: at home with regard to mental health challenges. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: this episode is one that I've been I've been looking forward to chatting Speaker 0: with Greg, and I appreciate him coming on. Speaker 0: He's got a a book out called, bipolar General, my Forever Speaker 0: War with Mental illness, and I actually just ordered it myself.

2:26 Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: this one is extremely informative and it actually presents a Speaker 0: good bit of hope if you listen. Speaker 0: It's not all it's not all rainbow rainbows and unicorns and Speaker 0: butterflies, but there's still hope. Speaker 0: So you're not gonna wanna miss this episode. Speaker 1: Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Speaker 1: Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, then this show Speaker 1: is for you. Speaker 1: Each week, we bring you impactful stories of real people who Speaker 1: have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of Speaker 1: abundance.

3:09 Speaker 1: You are not alone in your struggle. Speaker 1: Join us, and you will experience the power of true stories and Speaker 1: gain practical knowledge from founders who turned poverty into prosperity Speaker 1: and weakness into wealth. Speaker 1: This podcast will encourage you through your health, relationship, and financial Speaker 1: challenges So you can become the hero in your quest for Speaker 1: freedom. Speaker 1: Take ownership of the life you are destined to live. Speaker 1: Turn your adversity into abundance. Speaker 0: Alright. Speaker 0: Here's the deal. Speaker 0: You work hard for your money. Speaker 0: Isn't it about time you put your money to work for you? Speaker 0: If you are an accredited investor, check out labradorlending dot com.

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4:35 Speaker 0: So you can invest your capital today and have access to that capital Speaker 0: in one year. Speaker 0: Check it out today. Speaker 0: Labrador lending dot com. Speaker 0: Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance Speaker 0: podcast. Speaker 0: I am your host Jamie bateman, and I am pumped today Speaker 0: to have with us general Greg Martin, AKA, Speaker 0: the bipolar general, Greg, how are you doing today? Speaker 2: I'm doing great. Speaker 2: Thanks, Jamie. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: I I've been really looking forward to this this episode. Speaker 0: It's a for for multiple reasons. Speaker 0: We've got the the mill the army, background in Speaker 0: in, Speaker 0: that we share, you you did a couple more years in the army Speaker 0: than I did.

5:23 Speaker 0: That that's a joke. Speaker 0: Maybe a couple more two or three more decades. Speaker 0: But, so I know you have a very storied career in the army, which Speaker 0: I'm excited to chat a little bit about, And, obviously, you Speaker 0: you you, since we already mentioned, a little bit, Speaker 0: we're we're gonna focus someone a lot on your, on the your background as Speaker 0: far as your mental health and which is something I've really Speaker 0: been wanting to talk about a lot more on this on this show. Speaker 0: Just mental health in general, mental health, for entrepreneurs, Speaker 0: specifically. Speaker 0: It is such a such an important topic and, unfortunately, in Speaker 0: in our own home, we've had had some some real serious issues recently.

6:06 Speaker 0: And so won't go into too much detail on that. Speaker 0: At least not on this episode, but it's like Speaker 0: I said, unfortunately, has kinda come front and center for our family. Speaker 0: And, this year specifically. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: selfishly, unselfishly, whatever you wanna say, it it's something that I'm Speaker 0: very much interested in more so than I was a year ago. Speaker 0: And it's amazing how Speaker 0: how little we actually know about about the whole topic, but, Speaker 0: I imagine you're compared to me, quite an expert on it. Speaker 0: So I can't wait to dive in. Speaker 0: So I appreciate you being vulnerable and willing to to put your your Speaker 0: story out out there like you are.

6:50 Speaker 0: I know you have the book coming out, which we're gonna talk about. Speaker 0: So Greg, I'll stop rambling. Speaker 0: Who are who are you and what are you up to today? Speaker 2: So I am, Greg Martin, PhD retired Speaker 2: two star general from the army. Speaker 2: I have a bipolar brain. Speaker 2: I've lived on the bipolar spectrum pretty much my whole life, even though Speaker 2: the real official onset wasn't until two thousand and three in Iraq. Speaker 2: I had decades of, you know, terrifically successful service Speaker 2: I then went through a mental health bipolar crisis. Speaker 2: I I began my recovery journey seven years Speaker 2: ago.

7:32 Speaker 2: And, basically rebuilt my life and my Speaker 2: new life mission, over this past seven years, has become Speaker 2: sharing my bipolar story to help stop the stigma, Speaker 2: promote recovery, and save lives. Speaker 2: And so that's what I do. Speaker 2: I do it through, writing. Speaker 2: Jamie just mentioned I've got a a new book that's coming out. Speaker 2: So I do it through writing. Speaker 2: I've published about twenty five articles I've given probably Speaker 2: close to a hundred talks and presentations and interviews and podcasts, Speaker 2: and I confer with lots of different people on the subject of Speaker 2: mental health, resiliency, bipolar disorder.

8:14 Speaker 2: So that's what I do. Speaker 2: And that's who I am. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I appreciate that. Speaker 0: And and the book is called bipolar general, my forever war with mental Speaker 0: illness. Speaker 0: And I guess it's in collaboration with the association of the the Speaker 0: US army. Speaker 0: We'll get into the book a little bit more later for sure. Speaker 0: And before we jump into your Speaker 0: your backstory with regard to, you know, primarily the adversity that you've Speaker 0: faced on the mental health side, Can you share from a, Speaker 0: you know, military background standpoint a couple of the highlights Speaker 0: from your military career for us? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Well, first off, I I started my career going to West Point and Speaker 2: was graduated near the top of my class.

9:00 Speaker 2: Once I got out, I went I graduated from Army Ranger School, and then Speaker 2: I went to Germany as a platoon leader in charge of about thirty soldiers Speaker 2: And my branch was engineers. Speaker 2: So I had we did combat engineer missions. Speaker 2: And then I loved it. Speaker 2: I loved leading soldiers, taking care of them, working with them. Speaker 2: Loved the mission, exciting, dangerous, important, and then Speaker 2: I went on to become a company commander. Speaker 2: And then along the way, I ran seven marathons in under three hours. Speaker 2: And then the army sent me to grad school where I got two masters Speaker 2: in a PhD which, you know, that work level and creativity Speaker 2: level was reflective of a bipolar brain.

9:41 Speaker 2: You know, I had a low level of mania which they call hyperthymia, Speaker 2: which gave me, an a near continuous level of Speaker 2: lobania resulting in excess energy, drive, Speaker 2: enthusiasm, problem solving skills. Speaker 2: From there, I just kept serving in the army. Speaker 2: They, you know, each time I had a chance to get out and go Speaker 2: do something else, the army would give me a great assignment schooling, Speaker 2: something I really wanted to do. Speaker 2: So before you know it, I had over thirty years in the army. Speaker 2: And, the highlight of that time. Speaker 2: You know, I got all top ratings. Speaker 2: Also got married, three kids.

10:23 Speaker 2: But, the highlight was the Iraq war where I was a brigade Speaker 2: commander in charge of thousands of combat engineer troops. Speaker 2: We deployed from Germany to Kuwait attacked on to Baghdad, Speaker 2: and then spent a year fighting, Speaker 2: fighting, really a guerilla warfare inside of Iraq. Speaker 2: So that was really the highlight of my career. Speaker 2: I did seven different jobs as a general officer culminating in Speaker 2: being the president of National Defense University. Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: It's a there's a lot. Speaker 0: That's that's thank, you know, thank you for your service. Speaker 0: Of course, then that that is quite a bit of, impressive service Speaker 0: for sure.

11:04 Speaker 0: So you were in Iraq in two thousand three to two thousand four. Speaker 0: Is that what Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 0: And it was. Speaker 0: Gotcha. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I I was there from two thousand five to two thousand six. Speaker 0: And, you know, not that any of it is really funny Speaker 0: per se, but I joke that things started to get worse when our team Speaker 0: left in mid two thousand six. Speaker 0: And that's, you know, You do the math on why things got worse. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I'm I'm kidding. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: yeah, absolutely. Speaker 0: Certainly, agreello warfare, very asymmetrical and didn't necessarily Speaker 0: go with the way we'd hoped, you know, it certainly Speaker 0: wasn't an easy easy undertaking for sure, very Speaker 0: complicated.

11:46 Speaker 0: But, thank you for your service. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: let's jump back into your back story even more, and and on more on Speaker 0: the personal and mental health side, Speaker 0: where do you wanna start? Speaker 0: I know you said the last seven years of kind of have been a Speaker 0: different almost a different phase of your life in a new mission. Speaker 0: So imagine we wanna start before that. Speaker 0: Where would you like to start? Speaker 2: How about just start as a teenager? Speaker 2: And I'll I'll kinda go quickly through the early years. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: So like I said earlier, I have had Speaker 2: a bipolar brain, meaning that the genetic position Speaker 2: for bipolar disorder resided in my the wiring of Speaker 2: my brain, probably since teenage years on.

12:33 Speaker 2: Looking back with expert psychiatrists, we believe Speaker 2: now that I had this condition called hyperthermia. Speaker 2: Which is a mood type, which is very enthusiastic, Speaker 2: very energetic, and so forth. Speaker 2: And that gave me an added boost and enhanced my natural Speaker 2: talents and performance all the way from teenage years Speaker 2: you know, through high school, West Point, through the army, and Speaker 2: it was a benefit. Speaker 2: It helped me until it went too high. Speaker 2: And the point at which it went too high was during the Iraq war, Speaker 2: the, you know, the intense, Speaker 2: thrilled euphoria stress trauma of that experience Speaker 2: triggered unknowingly Speaker 2: my bipolar disorder, which, again, I had a genetic predisposition for.

13:25 Speaker 2: So in two thousand three, I went into mania, but it was a Speaker 2: high functioning, Speaker 2: not extremely high level, Romania. Speaker 2: And I felt like Superman, my performance went up I was I Speaker 2: felt better than I had ever felt in my life, and that went on Speaker 2: for the whole year in Iraq. Speaker 2: But when I came home to Germany, I fell into depression. Speaker 2: And was in depression for almost a year. Speaker 2: And, and that was all in two thousand three, two thousand and four. Speaker 2: All over the next from two thousand and three, which was onset of bipolar Speaker 2: disorder through two thousand and fourteen where it went really acute.

14:06 Speaker 2: My bipolar disorder was unknown, undetected, unrecognized, Speaker 2: undiagnosed. Speaker 2: But I started going into higher highs of mania Speaker 2: lower lows of depression. Speaker 2: And the the cycle start get kept getting higher and lower, higher and lower Speaker 2: until Speaker 2: By two thousand fourteen, I went into full blown mania where I Speaker 2: essentially lost my mind and went into a state of madness. Speaker 2: At that point, my boss, who was the chairman of the joint chiefs of Speaker 2: staff, when I was the president of National Defense University, made the decision Speaker 2: He needed to pull me out of the presidency of the school, both for Speaker 2: the good of the school and my own personal health.

14:47 Speaker 2: So he he did. Speaker 2: I actually got a, a call on a Friday afternoon, and Speaker 2: it said report to the chairman's office on Monday morning at ten o'clock. Speaker 2: And I didn't know because I was so manic. Speaker 2: I didn't know if I was gonna get promoted or fired. Speaker 2: I did know there had been a lot of, Speaker 2: you know, sort of anonymous complaints against me saying that my behavior Speaker 2: and my judgment were over the top, out of control, reckless Speaker 2: in beginning to hurt the university, and a lot of people had lost confidence Speaker 2: in me. Speaker 2: So when I went in to see the chairman, first person I saw was Speaker 2: the lawyer. Speaker 2: I said, whoa, no promotion today because now the lawyers in his office, Speaker 2: that's a bad sign.

15:31 Speaker 2: And, and the chairman, came washed the room, gave me a big hug Speaker 2: said, Greg. Speaker 2: I love you like a brother. Speaker 2: I give you an a plus for your work at Ndu, but your Speaker 2: time is over. Speaker 2: You have until five PM today to resign or I'll fire you. Speaker 2: And so I resigned that day because it's much better resign on your own Speaker 2: than to actually get relieved or fired, which can have all kinds of negative Speaker 2: implications. Speaker 2: And then he said, and oh, by the way, I'm ordering you to go Speaker 2: get a mental health exam, at Walter Reed. Speaker 2: And so I did I got the I got the medical exam that Speaker 2: week, and the doctor said you're fit for duty.

16:11 Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with you. Speaker 2: You're you're in great health, but they were completely wrong. Speaker 2: And there's a number of reasons they they got it so wrong. Speaker 2: Number one, they didn't cross check with between the medical Speaker 2: people and my chain of command they didn't communicate and share information. Speaker 2: Because if they had a diagnosis of bipolar disorder would have been Speaker 2: fairly easy. Speaker 2: The the second reason is that success Speaker 2: in any job masks the underlying condition of bipolar Speaker 2: disorder. Speaker 2: So because I was a two star general, because I had been so successful, Speaker 2: that masked the fact that I was mentally ill.

16:54 Speaker 2: And so that was, so they got it wrong. Speaker 2: And then when they gave that clean bill of health, my chain of command Speaker 2: said, we don't believe it. Speaker 2: Let's do a redo. Speaker 2: So I did two more redos And, all of them came back saying Speaker 2: you're perfectly healthy. Speaker 2: And by the way, during the previous, Speaker 2: ten years. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: I had gone in three different times for depression, which Speaker 2: is much easier to detect and spot and diagnosed. Speaker 2: Three times I went in for depression, and they said you're fine. Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with you, but they were wrong on those three times as Speaker 2: well because the impression was the low end of my bipolar Speaker 2: cycle.

17:36 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: So So and these were all I'm sorry. Speaker 0: These were all military doctors. Speaker 0: I I'm not trying to put the military doctors down, but that that's what Speaker 0: you were seeing. Speaker 2: All military, one was uniformed, two were civilians. Speaker 0: Gotcha. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I just, and again, this we won't make this episode about me Speaker 0: or my family, but I Speaker 0: on some level, we all know that the the so that certainly, the Speaker 0: civilian, medical health, men medical community, Speaker 0: I should say, is very much Speaker 0: disjointed and and and there's just a really poor Speaker 0: communication among different Speaker 0: departments, even in one hospital, let alone multiple hospitals or Speaker 0: or, like you said, your your, professional occupation and Speaker 0: that that organization Speaker 0: talking to the doctors and vice versa, Speaker 0: such a lack of communication and and, Speaker 0: I I can just say from firsthand experience recently, it's Speaker 0: it's just been very obvious that the unfortunately, Speaker 0: the patient is the one more times than not who's kinda Speaker 0: left with that responsibility of kind Speaker 0: of connecting the dots, if you will.

18:58 Speaker 0: And if you're going through a mental mental health if if you have Speaker 0: that underlying condition and you're going through a major mental health crisis, Speaker 0: how are you supposed to be able to to make those connections? Speaker 0: But, okay. Speaker 0: So So twenty fourteen so basically three times, Speaker 0: essentially at least six times you'd been told that you're you were Speaker 0: fine. Speaker 0: Mentally, there was no issue. Speaker 0: Is that right? Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 0: Gotcha. Speaker 0: And then so you do you go back what what do you do then? Speaker 0: You can't you were already resigned. Speaker 0: So professionally, what are your next steps? Speaker 2: So I was forced to resign earlier than I had planned.

19:40 Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And they put me back from the joint staff into the army Speaker 2: And I was given a kind of a soft landing job with the Speaker 2: army corps of engineers, which is pretty typical for when when Speaker 2: general officers get fired, Speaker 2: they are either they're they retire immediately within thirty Speaker 2: days where they're often given a choice of taking a Speaker 2: kind of a landing job that they can then get ready Speaker 2: to retire, do all their medical stuff get all the logistics squared away, Speaker 2: you know, try to plan for their housing and so forth. Speaker 2: So I got a job like that with the corps of engineers, and it Speaker 2: was good. Speaker 2: I did some pretty good work there.

20:22 Speaker 2: But what happened was from July of twenty fourteen, when I Speaker 2: got removed from command, I spiraled Speaker 2: downward. Speaker 2: And by November, I had fallen and crashed into Speaker 2: hopeless, dark, deep crippling depression with Speaker 2: terrifying psychosis. Speaker 2: And so I went back into the doctors and said, Hey, there's really something Speaker 2: wrong with me. Speaker 2: And at that point, they were able to diagnose me with bipolar disorder. Speaker 2: And from that point on, I was incapable of working or doing pretty Speaker 2: much anything They tried a bunch of different medications. Speaker 2: None of them worked. Speaker 2: They just made me sleepy. Speaker 2: I I retired a few months later, moved up to New Hampshire where we Speaker 2: had a home.

21:04 Speaker 2: And went from bad to worse. Speaker 2: By the way, there was no continuity of care. Speaker 2: So the the military medical system just basically dumped me into Speaker 2: the civilian world And I was in such a bad mental state. Speaker 2: I had no ability to navigate the medical system, and Speaker 2: my wife was trying to move. Speaker 2: So it was it was pretty bad. Speaker 2: And, I got I would say I got worse over the next Speaker 2: year, year and a half. Speaker 2: And I spent about two years in bipolar hell where I could Speaker 2: barely function terrifying psychosis, which I can talk about, Speaker 2: which led to suicidal ideations, Speaker 2: and then the depression so crippling that could, you know, barely do anything.

21:45 Speaker 2: Ultimately got hospitalized in the VA and spent, Speaker 2: two weeks in the inpatient psych ward and then Speaker 2: four more weeks living in the VA hospital in a dorm room. Speaker 2: And, and the the VA did, I think, did a very good job, but Speaker 2: they They still didn't really get me on the path of recovery. Speaker 2: That didn't happen until, Speaker 2: about six months later, when I was prescribed lithium, which was the Speaker 2: miracle cure for me. Speaker 2: I basically and it was, seven years ago, I Speaker 2: went from terrible depression. Speaker 2: The depression vanished in about three days. Speaker 2: Terrible psychosis, it vanished, and I never went back into mania.

22:29 Speaker 2: So the lithium was really my saving grace. Speaker 2: And we moved to Florida for the bright, warm sunshine. Speaker 2: And then that really began my journey of recovery, which I've Speaker 2: now been on for seven years. Speaker 0: That's fantastic. Speaker 0: I well, the recovery in sunshine is fantastic. Speaker 0: It's not fantastic that you've had to go through all of this, but, Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Am I we I I can relate, with with a good bit of Speaker 0: that. Speaker 0: Not not saying I've personally been through what you've been through, but Speaker 0: you know, close family members, spent a lot of two different iterations in Speaker 0: in the two different, psych facilities in Speaker 0: inpatient this year.

23:15 Speaker 0: And you're you're dealing with the emergency, you know, department Speaker 0: for a week until a bed opens up and inpatient bed opens up. Speaker 0: And then you're absolutely right that you think well, Speaker 0: you know, we're thinking, okay, the goal is to get this person Speaker 0: healthy again. Speaker 0: Really, it's just the beginning, and and and really the goal in Speaker 0: the inpatient facility, at least from my experience, is Speaker 0: just to get things kinda stabilized. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: And so less of an emergency slash, you know, Speaker 0: make make sure everybody's safe. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: But there's not a whole lot of recovery going on there.

23:56 Speaker 0: And it's interesting. Speaker 0: You you mentioned the sunshine though because we had two different experiences. Speaker 0: One, in a hospital that was, very little sunshine, Speaker 0: very few windows. Speaker 0: And it was just depressing to even be in there. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: And so how is this person going to recover in this facility Speaker 0: that's depressing to be in. Speaker 0: The second iteration we were actually in in more of a sun filled environment. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: There was a lot more progress made. Speaker 0: So that's the and that's, you know, I've I've been learning a lot more Speaker 0: about this stuff this year. Speaker 0: Personally, Speaker 0: and I'd love for you to correct me where I'm wrong or chime in.

24:39 Speaker 0: Personally, I'm I'm coming to understand that everything is connected Speaker 0: and and meaning physical health, mental health, Speaker 0: even spiritual health, It's all connected. Speaker 0: There's a book I read. Speaker 0: It's called Brain Energy. Speaker 0: It's from a HarvardMD. Speaker 0: His thesis he didn't come up with us, but the the thesis that he's Speaker 0: presenting or or putting out there is that it's all all comes down to Speaker 0: mitochondria. Speaker 0: And On some level, it's a mitochondrial dysfunction, Speaker 0: whether we're talking about bipolar disorder or diabetes, Speaker 0: it all comes down to the mitochondrion. Speaker 0: So somewhere in there, it's all it's all connected.

25:20 Speaker 0: So we've been taking a very I guess holistic approach. Speaker 0: Like, it sounds like you have been with regard to medication Speaker 0: and all of the things that Everyone needs sunshine, Speaker 0: good diet, exercise, like, whether you have a diagnosed Speaker 0: mental condition or not, we all need that. Speaker 0: And so, but that's that's fantastic. Speaker 0: What what else, I mean, through the seven years, I mean, first off, Speaker 0: the ten years prior just sound sounds I mean, it just sounds awful, Speaker 0: and I'm I'm very sorry you had to go through that. Speaker 0: Ten years is is no joke. Speaker 0: But, from the seven years during your recovery, I guess, what Speaker 0: what are some of the main lessons that you've learned?

26:07 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: That's a great question. Speaker 2: First off, you have to get your brain chemistry Speaker 2: balanced and in the correct, Speaker 2: formula. Speaker 2: And the way that worked for me is through medication. Speaker 2: I know some people use you know, natural, herbal supplements and Speaker 2: that kind of thing. Speaker 2: If it works for you, great. Speaker 2: It, you know, it didn't work for me. Speaker 2: But these medications work. Speaker 2: So lithium was the key supplemental by supplemented by Speaker 2: the moto gene in lorazidone. Speaker 2: So that has worked to stabilize my brain chemistry. Speaker 2: So that's number one. Speaker 2: Number two, I think therapy is critical because a trained Speaker 2: therapist can help you think through these Speaker 2: vexing problems and complexities you're dealing with in your life Speaker 2: and help you to find new ways of thinking about how to deal with Speaker 2: issues and challenges and problems.

27:06 Speaker 2: Third, which you mentioned, is healthy living, you know, which we all Speaker 2: know. Speaker 2: We all need that. Speaker 2: So it's a good diet, exercise, plenty of sleep, Speaker 2: low stress, plenty of water, all those tenets of healthy living. Speaker 2: And those items that I just mentioned are necessary, but Speaker 2: they're not sufficient for recovering. Speaker 2: So to really recover, you have to take those Speaker 2: attributes I just spoke of and anchor them into what I call Speaker 2: the five ps. Speaker 2: The foundation of the five ps, which are first people, Speaker 2: you know, surround yourself with us Mhmm. Speaker 2: A network in a circle of fun, happy, energetic Speaker 2: friends.

27:51 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Second, you have to have a purpose for your life. Speaker 2: You have to have a mission that you wanna get up every day and Speaker 2: pursue and and work on. Speaker 2: And, you know, I already talked about my which is sharing my bipolar story. Speaker 2: Thirdly, you wanna live in a place that's healthy for you. Speaker 2: So if you love the mountains and you love to be in Speaker 2: in the snow and ski, move somewhere where you'll be you'll have that. Speaker 2: If you love the big city life where you can, you know, walk to Speaker 2: the, you know, all those little stores, you know, live there. Speaker 2: For me, we figured it out through research that Speaker 2: and also our background that we really like, the sunshine, the warmth, Speaker 2: palm trees, brightness.

28:39 Speaker 2: And so we moved to Florida. Speaker 2: And it was a great decision. Speaker 2: It's very healthy for me. Speaker 2: And my wife loves it too. Speaker 2: Number four on the piece is perseverance. Speaker 2: You have to persevere. Speaker 2: You cannot give up. Speaker 2: And, you know, as you recover from mental health challenges Speaker 2: or other challenges, you're gonna hit bumps in the road where Speaker 2: your plan doesn't go as you expected. Speaker 2: So you have to keep fighting. Speaker 2: You have to pick yourself up. Speaker 2: If you get knocked back one step, then get up and go two steps Speaker 2: forward. Speaker 2: And then fourth is what I call presence. Speaker 2: And what presence means is the ability to think about your Speaker 2: own thinking.

29:22 Speaker 2: A fancy name for that is metacognition. Speaker 2: So all it means is we all think certain Speaker 2: ways, and we have certain thoughts that are oftentimes wrong. Speaker 2: They're often not correct. Speaker 2: So how do you get out of your own head, examine your thinking objectively, Speaker 2: and then move forward in a in a more positive healthy way. Speaker 2: Just a quick example. Speaker 2: You know, when I was really sick, I had terrible paranoid delusions Speaker 2: that people were out to get me. Speaker 2: They wanted to get me fired, put in jail, murdered, all this really bad Speaker 2: stuff. Speaker 2: And so sometimes I'll get little seedlings of those paranoid delusions, Speaker 2: even today.

30:06 Speaker 2: But I'm able to step outside my own mind and say, wait a minute. Speaker 2: It's not true. Speaker 2: Those people are not plotting against me. Speaker 2: In fact, they're not even thinking about me at all. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: Something totally else. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so that's how presence can help you. Speaker 2: So those are the main main lessons learned. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's those are fantastic. Speaker 0: I wrote those down. Speaker 0: People, purpose, place, Speaker 0: perseverance, and presence. Speaker 0: And the meta cognition is is a fancy word for presence or or Speaker 0: for awareness of our own thinking. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 2: It sounds Speaker 0: like. Speaker 0: So and and do you develop that presence through?

30:49 Speaker 0: I I know it's all related. Speaker 0: Again, they're they're not all entirely compartmented. Speaker 0: Five ps, if you will. Speaker 0: But is it through people? Speaker 0: Is it is it through therapy? Speaker 0: How do you develop that that meta cognition or that awareness of your own Speaker 0: thinking? Speaker 2: Well, I actually wrote an article, Speaker 2: about a year ago called the the four ps of mental Speaker 2: recovery. Speaker 2: It's in the psychiatric times. Speaker 2: And it was a pretty good article. Speaker 2: And one of my sons read it, and he said, Hey, you're missing a Speaker 2: p. Speaker 2: It should be present. Speaker 2: So he kinda taught it to me. Speaker 2: And so from then on, I included the fifth p presence.

31:30 Speaker 2: And I've talked about it to, my psychiatrist and Speaker 2: my therapist and my wife who is, like, you know, really like Speaker 2: a battle buddy. Speaker 2: So we've talked about it in-depth. Speaker 2: And then I talked to my friends. Speaker 2: So all my friends know that I live with bipolar disorder, and Speaker 2: I've told them Here are the basic symptoms of bipolar disorder. Speaker 2: If you see me displaying these symptoms, let me know, let Speaker 2: Maggie know, because I probably need to take some action. Speaker 2: And so I've talked to a lot of them about presence too, and, they Speaker 2: all agree. Speaker 2: And so Yeah. Speaker 2: You know, we have conversations about this stuff. Speaker 0: Gotcha. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: I'm just so glad that, you know, the military Speaker 0: I'm glad you're getting your story out there and and and, you know, I Speaker 0: worked for the Department of Defense for fourteen years after I was, Speaker 0: in the military.

32:22 Speaker 0: There was some overlap there as well, but you know, early on in my Speaker 0: own career, which I know was later than the beginnings of your career. Speaker 0: Department of Defense was not willing to talk about these issues. Speaker 0: It was really it was just frowned upon to even discuss, Speaker 0: and you'd probably just be kind of tossed to the the wayside. Speaker 0: So I I I think it's fantastic that not only you're getting your story Speaker 0: out there, but just that There's a larger conversation happening now. Speaker 0: And I think it's more important than ever that we have these conversations, especially Speaker 0: with frankly, what the the shutdown of the pandemic, Speaker 0: the impact that had on a lot of people and especially, you know, social Speaker 0: media with teenagers and Speaker 0: So a lot of a lot of factors, I think, that have played into Speaker 0: what I think is an increase in mental health health, issues that we're Speaker 0: facing as a as a society.

33:18 Speaker 0: What have you noticed over? Speaker 0: I I guess changes on a, I guess, macro scale Speaker 0: over the last, say, thirty years with regard to the Speaker 0: the discussion around mental health. Speaker 2: I would say that it's come a long way, and it's become more Speaker 2: normalized. Speaker 2: And I'll I'll give you some examples. Speaker 2: I think the Vietnam generation taught Speaker 2: us all about PTSD. Speaker 2: Which is a huge challenge and a and a huge issue. Speaker 2: But prior to the Vietnam generation, I don't think people were aware Speaker 2: of what PTSD was. Speaker 2: And then when we hit the nine eleven wars, you know, Iraq, Speaker 2: Afghanistan, Speaker 2: I think the military and the civilian society already Speaker 2: were pretty, pretty good about understanding PTSD.

34:11 Speaker 2: And I think we knew how to deal with it, and people were allowed Speaker 2: to continue to serve. Speaker 2: And there was a pretty open discussion about it. Speaker 2: But it took a little while before you have the same results Speaker 2: with depression, which is the most common mental illness. Speaker 2: I mean, it's so many people are afflicted with depression. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: That took a little while. Speaker 2: That took a number of years before the military. Speaker 2: And I think civilian society, Speaker 2: really came to grips with depression and and started, Speaker 2: allowing people to continue in their jobs and continue in the military.

34:52 Speaker 2: And then in rapid succession, you went from PTSD Speaker 2: in depression. Speaker 2: To then, you had, traumatic brain injuries, which Speaker 2: are not a mental illness, but they result in symptoms Speaker 2: that are like mental illness. Speaker 2: She had traumatic brain injuries. Speaker 2: That took a while to kinda get get grips on. Speaker 2: Then you had, moral injury, then you had survivors, Speaker 2: guilt. Speaker 2: And I I would say that bipolar disorder, is Speaker 2: lagging behind. Speaker 2: It's it's, you know, for years and years that if you Speaker 2: had bipolar disorder, you would be medically boarded out of the military.

35:33 Speaker 2: What's interesting is now, just in the last several months, I've talked to half Speaker 2: a dozen military people, both uniformed and civilian, Speaker 2: who Speaker 2: they, when they were coming up for, security clearance, they had to fill everything Speaker 2: out. Speaker 2: They put bipolar disorder type two, and they Speaker 2: they were cleared for security clearances. Speaker 2: So there's an understanding that, bipolar disorder type two Speaker 2: should not be a crippling, Speaker 2: service prohibiting condition. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 2: Bipolar disorder type one, which is what I have, which is, you Speaker 2: know, more mania, which is the really dangerous condition Speaker 2: with depression.

36:16 Speaker 2: That one is pretty much still your your medically boarded Speaker 2: out of out of military. Speaker 2: But I think we've come a pretty good way. Speaker 2: We have a way to go. Speaker 2: We've pushed a lot of the services for mental health down to Speaker 2: lower and lower levels to where you now have mental health professionals Speaker 2: in down at the battalion level. Speaker 2: And and that's a battalion's about five hundred troops. Speaker 2: So it's a pretty low tactical level. Speaker 2: I mean, you never had that before. Speaker 2: You didn't have mental health. Speaker 2: It was way up at a big hospital. Speaker 2: You know, above the division level. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: So so that's a that's a good thing.

36:57 Speaker 2: They're Speaker 2: the the service members are getting more and more training in Speaker 2: what the basic symptoms of the most common mental illnesses, Speaker 2: what they look like so they can spot it. Speaker 2: And, you know, we have a a battle buddy system or peer support system. Speaker 2: And so they're supposed to talk to each other if they notice problems. Speaker 2: And then if they if there is a problem, they should go in and Speaker 2: see a mental health professional, and it doesn't necessarily go in Speaker 2: their official record. Speaker 2: So you can you can get help and treatment at a low level, and Speaker 2: it stays private without going up the chain of command. Speaker 2: So I think there's some good things happening.

37:39 Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's a lot of progress. Speaker 0: You just detailed. Speaker 0: That's yeah. Speaker 0: Because that was always a fear for a lot of if this gets documented, Speaker 0: it's gonna ruin ruin my career. Speaker 0: And that what does that do for my family's well-being? Speaker 0: And you know, the the the so I can't talk about it or I Speaker 0: can't actually share that. Speaker 0: So, yeah, that's that's very good. Speaker 0: Progress for sure. Speaker 0: So what would you say are the biggest? Speaker 0: I mean, there's a ton, like I mentioned earlier, there's Speaker 0: I know we've come a long way with our understanding of how to diagnose Speaker 0: these things. Speaker 0: And I say our our, like, I'm a doctor, but Speaker 0: just as a community, we've certainly made a lot of progress in understanding Speaker 0: what we're actually let let's just talk about bipolar disorder Speaker 0: specifically.

38:31 Speaker 0: What are the gaping holes with, you know, what what progress needs to be Speaker 0: made? Speaker 0: What do we not understand Speaker 0: on what needs to be changed or, you know, where should we focus as Speaker 0: a as a society with regard to resources and learning more? Speaker 2: Well, the scientific and medical community are working day Speaker 2: and night to try to find ways to detect bipolar Speaker 2: disorder before it manifests itself and and Speaker 2: and the person suffers severe symptoms oftentimes Speaker 2: at the cost of their family, their marriage, their career, their finances, Speaker 2: the, you know, addictions, incarceration, and death.

39:12 Speaker 2: So I I feel like the medical community and the scientists Speaker 2: are really working hard at this. Speaker 2: They could always use more funding. Speaker 2: And so that's something that I think we could we could work on. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: But the biggest problem in my mind is the stigma. Speaker 2: Which is based on ignorance. Speaker 2: I mean, people still believe that mental illness is Speaker 2: not real. Speaker 2: That it's just a character flaw or a lack of willpower. Speaker 2: They they are unaware that it is physiologically Speaker 2: real inside the wiring of the brain. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And and so they deny that based on ignorance, that perpetuates Speaker 2: the stigma which leads people who need help, leads them to shame, Speaker 2: embarrassment, reluctance to go get help, to go get Speaker 2: to go get diagnosed.

40:04 Speaker 2: And so what people have to realize Speaker 2: is mental illness is just as physiologically real Speaker 2: as cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and there's no stigma Speaker 2: against people that have those conditions. Speaker 2: In fact, you recognize there's a problem you go get diagnosed and then Speaker 2: you get undergo the treatment. Speaker 2: In general, you get better. Speaker 2: I mean, the thing about mental the thing about mental illness is The bad Speaker 2: news is what I just said. Speaker 2: It can ruin your life. Speaker 2: The good news is that if diagnosed and treated properly, Speaker 0: You can Speaker 2: live a happy, healthy, purposeful life. Speaker 2: And and so I I really believe it's stigma, and the way Speaker 2: we're gonna get around that is through education.

40:48 Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: And and, like, yeah, absolutely. Speaker 0: And just the the general awareness of the people in you know, Speaker 0: the the lives of the people who have this have this illness is huge. Speaker 0: So I can speak for in our family, we're now much more aware of Speaker 0: what to look for, like you were talking about earlier with your the people Speaker 0: you've intentionally surrounded yourself with, Speaker 0: you know, not saying we're not gonna have any other issues or anything like Speaker 0: that, but we're much better prepared now as to what we're looking Speaker 0: for, and I think we're we're much we'll be much quicker to deal with Speaker 0: any major issues in the future, which is so comforting, you know, and Speaker 0: it's so it gives so much hope like you said to not only for Speaker 0: the family, but for the person who's going through this.

41:31 Speaker 0: So that's I couldn't agree more. Speaker 0: That's that's great. Speaker 0: So one thing I'll say is Speaker 0: you know, when we were first dealing with this, I was so Speaker 0: wrapped up in, trying to understand the diagnosis. Speaker 0: I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. Speaker 0: Because, you know, the way my my logical brain works, I guess, as well. Speaker 0: If it's this diagnosis, then you take this medication, and then it Speaker 0: gets better. Speaker 0: And then, and whereas a lot of the doctors, the psychiatrists Speaker 0: we were dealing with, they didn't seem quite as concerned. Speaker 0: I'm not saying they weren't trying to diagnose things accurately, Speaker 0: but they didn't seem quite as wrapped up in in the actual diagnosis Speaker 0: as I was because it almost seemed like Well, there's Speaker 0: a good bit of trial and error as far as how to address, Speaker 0: some of these issues.

42:25 Speaker 0: And that's where To me, that was very frustrating at first, but then Speaker 0: I realized, well, these are the experts. Speaker 0: And, you know, we just have to kind of have faith and continue, you Speaker 0: know, try different things. Speaker 0: What would you say with regard to how important is the diagnosis Speaker 0: I know you're not a a medical doctor, but you have firsthand experience with Speaker 0: a lot of this. Speaker 0: How important is the actual diagnosis with regard to mental Speaker 0: health, conditions. Speaker 2: Absolutely critical. Speaker 2: You know, think think of, when there's something wrong with your car and you Speaker 2: bring it into the shop, I mean, they don't know what to fix or Speaker 2: how to fix it until they diagnose what the problem is, whether it's something Speaker 2: in the engine or something in the alignment or something in the breaks.

43:13 Speaker 2: Well, it's even it's more so with the human brain, and it's Speaker 2: much more complex than, you know, a a car or something, Speaker 2: but they have to come they have to figure out what Speaker 2: is the problem. Speaker 2: And then they can begin to solve the problem. Speaker 2: And the problem with, you know, mental illness is Speaker 2: it's oftentimes very difficult to distinguish between, is Speaker 2: it bipolar disorder? Speaker 2: Is it just plain depression? Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Is it PTSD? Speaker 2: Is it ADHD? Speaker 2: What what is it? Speaker 2: Like my son who has He was diagnosed Speaker 2: with bipolar disorder in high school, and he's forty now.

43:55 Speaker 2: And he was recently diagnosed again. Speaker 2: But during those intervening twenty years, He was diagnosed with, Speaker 2: you know, four or five other things, Speaker 2: not, but not bipolar disorder. Speaker 2: And it was only recently when he underwent, you know, not only two Speaker 2: he had two different psychiatrists, Speaker 2: a psychotherapist, and he went to a neurology was only then Speaker 2: that they were able to really pinpoint, yes, you have bipolar Speaker 2: disorder which was the first time in twenty years. Speaker 2: And so now they're treating him with the right medication and the right therapy Speaker 2: for the condition that he has. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So I I'd say it's critical.

44:36 Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: And I just, unfortunately, and I can't I'm not trying to be Speaker 0: too negative on the medical community here, but I do think that's why a Speaker 0: lot of people maybe give up or just Speaker 0: that's where you need perseverance, like you said. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: you know, just you get so many conflicting opinions and trying Speaker 0: to find the the expert in trying to find that act kind Speaker 0: of maybe not final, but, Speaker 0: accurate diagnosis is is so important, but it's it's it's not always Speaker 0: easy. Speaker 0: I can I can say that? Speaker 0: So and and, you know, and that's our the reality is, actually, that's what Speaker 0: that's what kinda gets back to one of the themes of our show here, Speaker 0: which is my podcast here, which is taking ownership of your life, Speaker 0: and taking ownership of your situation.

45:26 Speaker 0: And the reality is, yeah, it would be great if if the doctors figured Speaker 0: it all out and got me fixed tomorrow. Speaker 0: But the fact is, even if it's not your fault Speaker 0: that this happened to you, and I'm just speaking to you, but it's for Speaker 0: all of us, it's still your your issue Speaker 0: to solve. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: And so it doesn't mean you're all alone. Speaker 0: I'm not saying that, but you know, the the listener out there, we all Speaker 0: need to take control and take ownership of our situation, whether we cause this Speaker 0: this adversity that we're going through or not. Speaker 0: It's what we're dealing with. Speaker 0: So you do have you you it is on you really to kind of Speaker 0: navigate that that process and get to the bottom of of, you know, Speaker 0: what that diagnosis is, and it's gonna require perseverance, patients.

46:11 Speaker 0: You know, there's progress being made. Speaker 0: Like you said, the doctors they're working nonstop to to, Speaker 0: you know, get more educated on on all of this. Speaker 0: Well, one more quick question on on bipolar disorder. Speaker 0: Do you think it can because I've heard different opinions on this. Speaker 0: Is it is it definitely permanent or can it go away? Speaker 2: Well, I've been taught that it's at this Speaker 2: point, with the medical technology, that it's pretty much Speaker 2: permanent. Speaker 2: So my expectation and what I've been taught is that I will Speaker 2: have bipolar disorder in my brain until the day I die.

46:55 Speaker 2: And I have to manage it like any other chronic disease, like how someone Speaker 2: manages diabetes. Speaker 2: Now will there come a time when there is some sort of medication Speaker 2: that can cure bipolar disorder. Speaker 2: There's none there right now, but again, the medical community is Speaker 2: working on it. Speaker 2: And I believe, that there probably will come a Speaker 2: time. Speaker 0: That's a great answer. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 2: And and, you know, it's interesting. Speaker 2: People with bipolar disorder Speaker 2: they seventy percent suffer a relapse, which is Speaker 2: really bad. Speaker 2: Oftentimes, the relapses are worse than the initial onset.

47:36 Speaker 2: But thirty percent don't suffer a relapse, which means Speaker 2: they're pretty much managing their bipolar disorder at steady state. Speaker 2: So it's their moods are within a reasonable band, not too Speaker 2: high, not too low. Speaker 2: And and just the fact that you can get there the way I've been Speaker 2: for seven years. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Gives me great hope. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: I love that. Speaker 0: That's that's a great way to answer it. Speaker 0: There's no reason in the future there couldn't be, Speaker 0: a cure. Speaker 0: But there's still hope even even without accurate. Speaker 0: There's still hope to manage the condition even if it is permanent. Speaker 0: So that's great. Speaker 0: I love that.

48:18 Speaker 0: Alright. Speaker 0: I've got a some rapid fire questions. Speaker 0: You ready for those? Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 0: What is one thing that people misunderstand about you, Greg? Speaker 2: That I'm a regular normal guy who Speaker 2: has been greatly helped in many Speaker 2: ways by my bipolar brain. Speaker 2: It helped me until it went too high, and then it hurt me Speaker 2: And now even though I still have severe bipolar Speaker 2: disorder in my brain, I'm a pretty normal person living Speaker 2: a normal, healthy life.

48:59 Speaker 2: Because it's contained and managed. Speaker 0: Love that. Speaker 0: Looking back, this could be either professional or personal, but What is one of Speaker 0: your biggest failures or regrets? Speaker 0: Just something you'd prefer to have a a do over with. Speaker 2: I wish I had somehow Speaker 2: been aware that I had gone into full blown mania, Speaker 2: but I did because I felt so good. Speaker 2: It's like you're on the the greatest drug high in the world. Speaker 2: And so I had no idea that I had gone into full blown mania, Speaker 2: if I had had some awareness and then was able Speaker 2: to take action and maybe get on lithium much sooner.

49:46 Speaker 2: I I would have avoided a lot of pain and hardship. Speaker 2: On the on the other side of the coin, I wish Speaker 2: I had been able to get on some kind of medication Speaker 2: when I was going through two years of bipolar hell, primarily Speaker 2: depression and psychosis. Speaker 2: You know, I wish I had gotten on some medication And there had been Speaker 2: some awareness in the medical people on how to treat me. Speaker 2: They they really didn't. Speaker 2: They they just that they struck out and didn't treat me Speaker 2: correctly. Speaker 2: I wish that I had had because I could have saved a lot of Speaker 2: pain for me. Speaker 2: My family and recovered a lot sooner.

50:28 Speaker 0: Well, I I wish that for you as well, but you're also now getting Speaker 0: bringing such awareness to others, which is gonna be such a benefit for them. Speaker 0: So through your adversity, we're we're all being blessed. Speaker 0: So we appreciate that. Speaker 0: If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, Speaker 0: what would that be? Speaker 0: Anything that we haven't touched on already? Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 2: It's the same advice my mother gave me when I was eighteen. Speaker 2: She said, Greg, I'm worried about you. Speaker 2: You don't get enough sleep. Speaker 2: You drink too much alcohol, Speaker 2: and you take your job way too seriously. Speaker 2: These three things are gonna kill you.

51:09 Speaker 2: Or make you sick. Speaker 2: In that combination of those three, I'm sure Speaker 2: played significant roles in triggering and propelling Speaker 2: my bipolar disorder. Speaker 2: So mom was right. Speaker 0: They usually are. Speaker 0: If you could give if you could have coffee with any historical figure, who Speaker 0: would you choose? Speaker 2: I would really like to, talk to Teddy Roosevelt Speaker 2: because most people who really look at him and study Speaker 2: his life and his behavior and his his writings and his Speaker 2: diaries and his letters, come to the conclusion that he had pretty Speaker 2: serious bipolar disorder.

52:00 Speaker 2: And but but so but when you look at a list, of the may Speaker 2: most famous people with bipolar disorder, oftentimes he's not Speaker 2: on there. Speaker 2: I'm not sure why. Speaker 2: And then sometimes he is, But I would I would like to have a Speaker 2: conversation and and really get into his behavior, Speaker 2: which was pretty extreme. Speaker 2: And, in in in in sort of see for myself. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's a great answer. Speaker 0: If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? Speaker 2: Well, I pay off all of our bills. Speaker 2: I would probably Speaker 2: set aside something so that, you know, my own family Speaker 2: and children and wife were, you know, pretty secure Speaker 2: financially for their own future.

52:47 Speaker 2: And then I think I would donate it to bipolar Speaker 2: and brain research. Speaker 2: You know, there are foundations and associations Speaker 2: around the world that this is what they do, this is what they focus Speaker 2: on, because it's been such a, you know, close and personal Speaker 2: part of my life that I would like to make a difference. Speaker 2: And, you know, several million dollars could make a huge difference Speaker 2: in the research. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: So you mentioned your wife and, you know, I don't know how specific you Speaker 0: wanna get, but Speaker 0: Obviously, this your that what you've been dealing with, specifically, Speaker 0: in the last seventeen, eighteen years, has, Speaker 0: I'm sure, had a major impact on her, and the rest of your family.

53:35 Speaker 0: How has everything? Speaker 0: This isn't part of my rapid fire questions, but How has how has all Speaker 0: of this impacted your family? Speaker 2: I'd say it's been pretty rough, to see me Speaker 2: you know, so successful, and then go into this, Speaker 2: you know, insane Speaker 2: madness and then the horrible depression with psychosis, which Speaker 2: is pretty scary for everybody. Speaker 2: I think it really shook them up. Speaker 2: It disrupted the family. Speaker 2: It, you know, threw a monkey wrench into everything. Speaker 2: Shook people's confidence. Speaker 2: You know, fortunately, everybody stuck with me. Speaker 2: Nobody you know, abandoned me or walked away.

54:16 Speaker 2: And my wife, it's interesting. Speaker 2: We just talked about the five piece. Speaker 2: She writes a piece in, in the book, there's a family piece. Speaker 2: So my three sons and my wife have a piece in the book, Speaker 2: and she talks about the p word perseverance that Speaker 2: when I was in really bad shape, that she just kept persevering Speaker 2: one day at a time, one foot in front of the other, never giving Speaker 2: up. Speaker 2: And she said the reason the big reason they kept her going was that Speaker 2: I never gave up hope Mhmm. Speaker 2: That I kept persevering, kept fighting, kept trying to get better, Speaker 2: even though it was a long, slow, uneven process. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: But that, your own perseverance can add Speaker 0: to someone else's and you play off of each other's strengths and hope there.

55:02 Speaker 0: That's wonderful. Speaker 0: What is, well, before we dive into the book, Do you have another book Speaker 0: besides your own that you could recommend, for our listener either on Speaker 0: mental health or or the military or any anything Speaker 0: Any topics? Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 2: The first book I would recommend is it's called a first Speaker 2: rate madness. Speaker 2: Uncovering the links between leadership and mental illness. Speaker 0: And Speaker 2: it's written by a professor of psychiatry at Tufts University Speaker 2: called, named Nasir, n a s s I r, Speaker 2: Gammie, g h a e m I.

55:45 Speaker 2: It is an absolutely fascinating book that looks at these Speaker 2: historic world leaders and tracks them in terms Speaker 2: of brain health, mental illness. Speaker 2: And he comes to the conclusion that these big leaders with, Speaker 2: pretty serious to severe mental illness, tend to be better Speaker 2: crisis leaders but not as good during routine peacetime. Speaker 2: In people with a, quote, unquote, normal brain tend to do better Speaker 2: in normal times, but not as well during crisis. Speaker 2: And, you know, there's all kinds of examples. Speaker 2: The one I'll just give that's most notable is probably, Speaker 2: Winston Churchill who had severe bipolar disorder.

56:28 Speaker 2: They called it manic depressive illness back in those days, but he was a Speaker 2: phenomenal wartime leader. Speaker 2: And but he wasn't so good when there wasn't a war going on. Speaker 2: And, and so and I were I've worked with Professor Gammie, who is Speaker 2: really help me understand myself. Speaker 2: But that's one. Speaker 2: There's another one. Speaker 2: We've been talking about bipolar disorder, and I have type one. Speaker 2: There's another, really good book recently written. Speaker 2: It's called brainstorm. Speaker 2: From from, Speaker 2: It it's about it's called Brainstorm Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: From Speaker 0: I can look it up for us. Speaker 2: Something in her name, her name is Sarah.

57:10 Speaker 2: S a r a, Shlee, Shlee, s c h l Speaker 2: e y. Speaker 2: But Sarah's book, Speaker 2: goes into great depth about bipolar disorder type two, which Speaker 2: is Speaker 2: very low level mania in a lot of depression. Speaker 2: And, very tough to diagnose. Speaker 2: Bipolar one is much more easy to diagnose because of the spikes in the Speaker 2: mania. Speaker 2: Sarah's book is good because it covers the other end of the bipolar spectrum. Speaker 0: Which is is that generally more more common, but harder to diagnose? Speaker 2: I think so. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: There's another, it's not a book. Speaker 2: It's a website that's called psych education.

57:52 Speaker 2: And it's doctor James Phelps, p h g Speaker 2: l p s, and it takes about thirty five minutes to go through the Speaker 2: the modules of psych education, and it is brilliant Speaker 2: in its explanation of, mood disorders. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: And Sarah's book is brainstorm from broken to blessed on the bipolar Speaker 0: spectrum. Speaker 0: So have to check that out. Speaker 0: And the one I mentioned is called brain energy. Speaker 0: Which is, Speaker 0: it it was fascinating to me as well. Speaker 0: It's a little bit controversial because a lot of what people took away from Speaker 0: it largely was that everybody should do the keto diet and that fixes Speaker 0: everything.

58:35 Speaker 0: And that's not at all what he says. Speaker 0: He says that he has had some success with the keto diet with certain Speaker 0: patients. Speaker 0: And Speaker 0: that that can help in a lot of cases, but he absolutely believes Speaker 0: in medication and sort sort of more of the I guess, traditional Speaker 0: medical approach to addressing mental illness. Speaker 0: So that illness, that's another one that I'll throw in there as well. Speaker 0: Let's talk about your book before we get out of here. Speaker 0: So, bipolar general, my forever war with mental Speaker 0: illness, Can you dive into the book a little bit for us? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I would say that the book goes into Speaker 2: much greater depth and detail, Speaker 2: on all the things that I've already talked about, but it You know, it Speaker 2: tells the story of, you know, my life from, Speaker 2: you know, probably teenage high school years, all the way through Speaker 2: to, Speaker 2: into my journey of recovering.

59:37 Speaker 2: So it covers all of that. Speaker 2: You know, it goes into my service in the military, Speaker 2: my success, which was, you know, really, really high success. Speaker 2: I got top ratings, my whole army career, made it to two star general, Speaker 2: had very prestigious jobs, was a successful brigade commander Speaker 2: in combat. Speaker 2: You know, married for forty years, three kids, talked Speaker 2: about the marathons, talked about the degrees from MIT. Speaker 2: So very, very successful career and life of Speaker 2: service. Speaker 2: So I I talk about that, and then I talk in-depth about my mental Speaker 2: health crisis. Speaker 2: You know, my, you know, the onset in Iraq, then Speaker 2: the intense Speaker 2: crazy mania interspersed with deep Speaker 2: crippling hopeless depression, and then ultimately, Speaker 2: you know, terrifying psychosis of my, you know, continuous Speaker 2: visions, hallucinations of my own bloody violent Speaker 2: death in prison, and so that just plagued me.

1:00:44 Speaker 2: And I had other, hallucinations of this invisible force Speaker 2: that would throw me underneath a a rapidly moving eighteen wheeler truck. Speaker 2: And then I'd see my arms and legs and head go flying out. Speaker 2: Or if I was driving in a car, the invisible force would grab my Speaker 2: my hands and turn the wheel into an oncoming truck And those are Speaker 2: actually called passive suicidal ideations. Speaker 2: So I talk all about those. Speaker 2: I talk about the many, many episodes of mania and depression, Speaker 2: the two years of bipolar hell, as I call it, Speaker 2: and then The beginning of my turnaround, which was Speaker 2: the inpatient, Speaker 2: stint at the VA hospital psychiatric ward, you know, what that Speaker 2: was like, what it did for me, how it helped me, how it kinda Speaker 2: put me in a little bit more of a steady state even Speaker 2: though it was still five more months before we tried lithium, Speaker 2: and then with lithium, my symptoms you know, pretty much vanished.

1:01:46 Speaker 2: And the lithium built like a ceiling above me Speaker 2: in a floor below me. Speaker 2: So if my brain wanted to go into mania, It couldn't because it would Speaker 2: bump into the the the ceiling. Speaker 2: If you want to go into depression, it couldn't because it had hit the Speaker 2: the floor. Speaker 2: And then the move to Florida, then how I really rebuilt my Speaker 2: life, you know, built a a whole new life And then I go into Speaker 2: a lot of lessons learned and recommendations, you know, for Speaker 2: both the military and the civilian world. Speaker 2: And, it's really important to talk, you know, the it's much bigger than the Speaker 2: military because virtually a hundred percent of the global population Speaker 2: is somehow touched by mental illness.

1:02:27 Speaker 2: About twenty percent are afflicted with mental illness, like Speaker 2: right now. Speaker 2: In the other eighty, by virtue of being family, friend, colleague, are Speaker 2: touched or affected by it. Speaker 2: So everybody is touched. Speaker 2: And, and so I talk I talk about that. Speaker 2: And, and then I have a really good, epilogue by, Speaker 2: a a guy who helped the chairman of the joint chiefs Speaker 2: with his investigation of me and whether he should keep me Speaker 2: in the job. Speaker 2: And so it's a really brutal epilogue that pulls Speaker 2: a lot of things together, and then there's the family appendix, which is really Speaker 2: interesting. Speaker 2: So that's pretty much that's it. Speaker 2: That's the work in Michelle.

1:03:08 Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's fantastic. Speaker 0: I actually just pre ordered it while you were while you were doing that. Speaker 0: So I have I think it comes out. Speaker 0: It'll it'll be out, but when this episode is released, so I Speaker 0: I'll, I can't wait to read it, so I'm excited. Speaker 2: You know, one thing I I found out this weekend that the people who Speaker 2: have pre ordered, their books are arriving. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 0: So I Speaker 2: heard from three different people. Speaker 2: They said, hey, my book got here. Speaker 2: They we already did a while ago. Speaker 0: Interesting. Speaker 0: You say that. Speaker 0: So I I just put a book out. Speaker 0: It it's not it's we didn't really do the the the plan, Speaker 0: the the launch very well, and it's to be honest with you, I I'm Speaker 0: kinda fumbling through the whole Amazon KDP thing. Speaker 0: And we thought we were doing a pre order, you know, for a for Speaker 0: a month, and then all of a sudden, Wait a minute.

1:03:52 Speaker 0: I actually published this thing. Speaker 0: Oh, you can get it now. Speaker 0: So, yeah. Speaker 0: I'm learning as I go, and maybe my second book will be the the Speaker 0: book is great, but the process was There's room for improvement. Speaker 0: But, okay. Speaker 0: So maybe I'll get the hard copy here in a in a day or Speaker 0: two. Speaker 0: That'll be great. Speaker 0: What, besides we, b before we ask you where our listeners can find Speaker 0: you online, Greg, is there anything we have not covered that you would like Speaker 0: to? Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one thing. Speaker 2: You know, there's always hope. Speaker 2: Don't give up hope. Speaker 2: Hope is your oxygen that helps you keep going. Speaker 2: In in touching back to the stigma piece, there's a great example Speaker 2: of how we can overcome stigma as a society.

1:04:37 Speaker 2: If you go back to the nineteen seventies, Women with breast cancer were Speaker 2: stigmatized. Speaker 2: They were shamed, embarrassed. Speaker 2: They kept it in the closet until Betty Ford started talking openly Speaker 2: about it. Speaker 2: And she was president Ford's, you know, wife, first lady. Speaker 2: And, she started talking about it. Speaker 2: And pretty soon, it became normalized. Speaker 2: And now fifty years later, breast cancer, women with breast Speaker 2: cancer are celebrated as heroic figures battling this terrible Speaker 2: disease. Speaker 2: I mean, the the NFL wears pink shoes and pink ribbons. Speaker 2: So if we could do that for breast cancer, we can do it for Speaker 2: mental illness. Speaker 0: Hundred percent. Speaker 0: That's that's great. Speaker 0: I love that about about never give up hope.

1:05:19 Speaker 0: That's fantastic. Speaker 0: Well, Greg, where can our listeners find you online? Speaker 2: They can go to my website. Speaker 2: W w w dot Speaker 2: bipolar general dot com. Speaker 2: So that's my my newest. Speaker 2: It goes to the same place if you use w w w Speaker 2: dot greg, general greg Martin dot com. Speaker 2: They both go to the same place. Speaker 2: But bipolar general is easier to remember and it's, catchier. Speaker 0: And Greg has two gs, three gs, two at the end. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 0: Fantastic. Speaker 0: This has been great. Speaker 0: Go ahead.

1:06:00 Speaker 2: I'll also give my, email address if somebody wants to send me an email. Speaker 2: It's, greg Martin Speaker 2: seventy nine at g mail dot com. Speaker 0: Fantastic. Speaker 0: Greg Martin, this has been Speaker 0: very good. Speaker 0: This has been very informative. Speaker 0: It's, you know, it just like I feel for, Speaker 0: all of our guests. Speaker 0: I'm sorry that they've been through any type of adversity, but the reality is Speaker 0: that you've you've rebounded. Speaker 0: You've recovered. Speaker 0: You've and you've learned a ton through all this that you're now sharing with Speaker 0: the rest of us. Speaker 0: And we're all able to benefit from from your story and the fact that Speaker 0: you're willing to be vulnerable and, open about what you've Speaker 0: personally been through And, again, thank you for your Speaker 0: awesome service here long and and and and just Speaker 0: I mean, we there's just so much we didn't cover with regard to your Speaker 0: military service.

1:06:59 Speaker 0: That'll be episode two when we bring it back. Speaker 0: But thank you so much for spending your time with us. Speaker 0: We really appreciate it, sir. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And I I'd love to come back and do one focused on military because Speaker 2: there's a lot to talk about there. Speaker 2: But, Jamie, thank you so much. Speaker 2: It's been really an honor, a privilege to be on with you, and thanks Speaker 2: to all your listeners for being on and listening. Speaker 0: Appreciate that. Speaker 0: And, yes, thank you to the listener. Speaker 0: We appreciate you, and we appreciate that you're choosing to spend your Speaker 0: time with us since that is your most valuable resource. Speaker 0: Thanks, everyone. Speaker 0: Take care. Speaker 3: Investors Have you ever experienced challenging communication or the Speaker 3: headache of tracking taxes and insurance?

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