Amassing Wealth & Regaining Health Patrick Carroll on Real Estate Cycles & Mental Fitness

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This interview with Patrick Carroll is definitely one of my favorites that I've ever done. I highly recommend you stay tuned. Patrick comes from no money, moved cities at age nineteen, and got started in real estate investing in the single family space and then pivoted into multifamily, college, housing, and property management. And we and a lot of other vertically integrated companies and services along the way. Millions and millions of dollars, made along the way. I think he said at age by age twenty seven, he'd made close to ten million dollars. And, I think that pales in into, in comparison to where he is now. Just a fascinating story. Very humble guy and clearly likes to kind of operate behind the scenes. And, you know, just he I just love the story of, you know, how he's evolved over time. We do talk a lot about how mental health can be really, challenged and with entrepreneurship and maybe how, you know, how to balance all that, being an entrepreneur entrepreneur with that drive and the work ethic and how other facets of your life can really, suffer with regard to mental health relationships, etcetera. And it's just really interesting also a lot about market conditions and and his insights. He's really able to look zoom out and and kinda look ahead, and it just feels like he's been able to time the markets well. And if you're just starting out, this one is definitely for you. Also, if you're if you've been in the real estate investing space, this one is for you. Good amount of of of discussion on single family versus multifamily, but also the personal element of just mindset. A lot about mindset in this space in this in this discussion. At the very end, he talks about how I'm not gonna give it away. You need to stay tuned, but he gives some very, very good advice at the very end of this show, you know, about how to how to make it, how to be a success. So you don't wanna miss this episode, and you don't you wanna listen all the way to the end. I hope you enjoy it. 

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From adversity passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the 

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confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. 

Speaker 1

With a decade plus of inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. 

Speaker 0

Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Patrick Carroll. Patrick is a real estate visionary, entrepreneur, and philanthropist, and we're gonna get into his amazing story here in a bit. Patrick, how are you doing today? 

Speaker 2

I'm doing well. Thank you. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Thank you for joining us. You know, I I've I'm told you're not supposed to refer to, you know, prior to hitting record, but we were chatting before, we hit record. And, man, it's just amazing what you've been able to accomplish, and now you're in a phase of giving back and and looking at what's next. So I'm I'm excited to dive in to your story. You came from nothing financially and, have certainly reached a level of abundance for sure. Talk to us, before we jump back into your younger years, talk to us a little bit more about what you're up to today. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Today, I'm I'm canvassing the landscape. I'm looking, you know, with interest rates where they are, it really did force everybody to pivot. You know? You're having to look at real estate differently than just financial engineering. I mean, from two thousand ten to two thousand twenty, really, you could borrow it next to nothing. You could buy four or five caps, and, you know, you'd have great cash flow. We had tons of rent growth in the Sunbelt, and it was, you know, it was a it was a fantastic run. Now you're really having to be a real estate guy again. Real a real real estate investor. You're having to look at properties that are undermanaged, undervalued. They don't have, you know, what their, you know, their peers their comps have and go in there and and value add, try to get real rate growth. Mhmm. I think it's difficult to do where the interest rates are. I think the market is still trying to figure out where pricing, should be. Mhmm. So I've been paid attention to and and then there's five hundred thousand units coming online this year. So that's in multifamily. Because it's been tough to figure out, I've looked at other asset classes. You know? Mhmm. Office has been beaten down so much that, you know, if something gets priced down so much, it takes a lot of the risk out of it. Even though office was left or dead, the you know, two two years ago, people are now leasing back. You see big companies and just about everybody having employees come back. I mean, all these tech companies have said, we're gonna have work from home forever have changed time. And so it's it's significant. It's a 

Speaker 0

some opportunity there. Right? 

Speaker 2

I think so. Yeah. I think there there is gonna be opportunity, especially for the better located somewhat newer buildings. Mhmm. You know, off off, you know, off mark you know, off center of town or, you know, off, you know, not great locations. Yeah. Older buildings are gonna be tougher. But Sure. 

Speaker 0

You know? And, clearly, you're a real estate guy at heart. We I could tell. You know, you're chomping at the bit to get back in the game. I know you're not fully out of the game. Before we jump back, you know, we'll go back to probably age nineteen in your story. But, you sold off a company a couple years ago. You know, from a personal standpoint, we don't have to get too specific, but, you know, speak to briefly the abundance that you're living in and maybe what you think the listener will get out of this episode. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I started my company roughly when I was twenty one years old. Okay. And it's all I knew. You know? I worked twenty four seven, it felt like. I had, you know, I had fire in my belly, and I wanted to get it done. You know, I kind of didn't pay attention to anything else, including, you know, health, mental health, relationships. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And so, you know, that's that's hard. You know? But sometimes I think to get to where you wanna be, you almost have to have that mentality. I mean, you listen to Elon Musk, and he he goes into all those companies and say, look. If you're gonna work here, you've gotta be hardcore. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And with all we that's what we were when I had my company. We were all willing to sacrifice, at least temporarily, to do the competition. Mhmm. And I think every stage of your career, whether you're starting out flipping one single family home, which I did, you know, I started doing that. How are you gonna get that deal when everybody out like, if it's a good deal, whether it's a small deal or a big deal, you're gonna have competition. 

Speaker 0

Sure. 

Speaker 2

So how do you get that property? How do you, you know, make sure your subcontractors do what they're supposed to do? How do you get the financing? And it's just you have to be laser focused. You have to you have to not give up. 

Speaker 0

Right. Well and I could tell you're not somebody who's looks at this as though you've arrived, but, you you you're living comfortably now, and you're not, you know, you're not forced to rush into the next opportunity. It sounds like you're being, using some self discipline and and being careful about the direction you're headed in next. But because you've put in all that work and had the success, you're able to take that that time now and kind of regroup and make sure the market conditions line up how you want them to. And, so, yeah, let's let's jump back. So age nineteen, you move to Atlanta. Start from there, and then we'll walk through your story chronologically. What's what what, you know, what's going on in your life at age nineteen? 

Speaker 2

I mean, yeah, Atlanta was like the New York City of the South. And so, you know, I really just I wanted to go. I wanted to get I grew up in Tampa, Florida, and I wanted out of there. You know? All my friends were going to college. I I didn't wanna go. Mhmm. And somehow, I I wasn't able to get a hundred percent mortgage. I remember the mortgage broker. Her name was Lisa Pinson. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And she got me a whole a hundred percent, 

Speaker 0

you know, 

Speaker 2

first time stated income, all that good stuff in the early two thousands. Yeah. 

Speaker 0

That's crazy. You you I mean, it's just like if you could fog a mirror, you could get a loan. Right? 

Speaker 2

Hundred percent. Pretty much. And so I moved up to Atlanta. It was a a condo in Midtown Atlanta. And I was like, shit. If I can do this one time, I'm gonna do it again. And so I I was get first time home buyer, mortgages for a hundred percent. I probably did it ten times. And, you know, I had, like, a little portfolio. I remember going back, you know, on holidays to Tampa and running into buddies that I had high you know, from high school and being like, yeah. I own ten houses. And they were like, what? And, you know, I started selling them off, Then I, started building homes. I would go buy similar homes as I was flipping and knock them down and build bigger homes. You know? And back then, you didn't have to have a GC license. So I would just hire crews. I would hire the architects. I'd build the same home over and over and over. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

I have no idea if those homes are still standing or what. But, you know, I got an opportunity. I mean, these what's amazing is once you start going, doors are open. I tell people once good things start happening, just say yes. And so I got and, you know, I got a call. Hey. This guy up in Boone, North Carolina wants to meet with you. And I'm like, Boone, North Carolina. What the hell? So I go up there, and it's a guy. He was trying to pitch me on doing mountain homes. And this is, like, two thousand six. The housing market, in my opinion, was getting a little a little long in the tooth. Mhmm. And I said, listen. I don't really wanna do that. You know, what else do you have? And he's like, well, this is a great student housing market. And I said, that's what I wanna do. You know, I ended up partnering with him, on a student housing development. We sold it in March of two thousand eight, and it was great timing. And shortly after that, the market crashed. 

Speaker 0

So to to on that decision point, that was just a key inflection point, if you will. Why did you why was student housing better than, the the mountain housing option? 

Speaker 2

You know, my thinking at that time was everybody well, this guy, first of all, picked me up in a, you know, probably the nicest Mercedes I'd ever seen. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

He was, like, seventy years old. And, you know, in addition to saying he was doing student housing, he said, basically, I've made all my money in student housing. Mhmm. But I used to read a ton, I still do, about, you know, real estate moguls, real estate dynasties, things like that. Mhmm. Mult, you know, multifamily was very much a part of all these guys' portfolio. And I'd read about the wealthy families in New York, you know, in in New York City and things like that. The little fracs, you know, all these people, and they all Donald Trump's father made his money in multifamily. Mhmm. 

Speaker 0

And so I think 

Speaker 2

I had it in the back of my head, but I also just thought, damn. This is the next step up. You know? This this is a big deal. I can go back and really thump my chest, you know, in Atlanta and be a real player, be a real developer. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. So your first deal, that first condo, was not necessary it was an owner occupied. It wasn't meant to be an investment. It was just you wanted to get out of Tampa. And then and then because you saw how kind of easy it was and and, you just want to replicate it. Right? The first deal actually wasn't intended to be an investment per se. Right? 

Speaker 2

Right. Even though in addition to getting mortgages, you could hit these properties two weeks later with home equity lines. And so I I yanked out money on that. I would yank out money on all these things. That's how I was doing the renovation. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. 

Speaker 2

You know, I'd buy a house. And then two weeks later, I'd say, okay. It's worth more. I don't know how to let us do that and pull up, like, twelve thousand dollars, and that's how I'd renovate them. And I'd either rent them or sell them. Whatever you know, I would say buyers you know, I would say I would market them as books. You know? And if somebody rent them, good. If somebody wanted to buy it 

Speaker 0

Awesome. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Let them do it. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Gotcha. So before you pivoted or or, I guess, moved into the student housing space, what was that timeline? And and if you can put any numbers to it, what was the growth like from from zero to student housing? Financially? Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Alright. Yeah. I mean, two thousand four to probably two thousand eight. And I remember being at, you know, an adult entertainment establishment with my, friends from college. And I went some money, and I had probably you know, I left the ATM receipt in the in the ATM machine. I had, like, five million dollars in in there. 

Speaker 0

And they 

Speaker 2

were like, what the hell? And so that was, like, probably two eight. I made a good amount of money on that student housing deal. So, really, you know, prior to the financial downturn Mhmm. Probably close to ten million dollars. 

Speaker 0

Wow. And and what age was that for you? 

Speaker 2

Probably, like, twenty seven. 

Speaker 0

Wow. So, I mean, for those listening who say, well, this guy just timed the market, got lucky, didn't just happen to not make any mistakes, I couldn't do that. What would you say? 

Speaker 2

You know, luck is opportunity met with per you know, when opportunity meets preparation. And so, I've been lucky a lot. You know, if you look over my career, I've been lucky a lot. And I know I, you know, acknowledge that, but I've been really good at taking a step back and looking try to looking three to five years. I mean, I'm not the guy that wants to get in the weeds and, you know, oversee every part of of construction. I'm not the guy that wants to run a big company. I wanna hire people to do that. Mhmm. And so I like to take a step back and look at what's gonna happen. And Mhmm. I've always take take taken the approach. It's better to be a little early than a little late. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

So 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, we're at a time right now. If I was just starting out, we're at another one of those times. Now like you and I were just talking about 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

All this debt is coming due. People got overextended. And so, you know, I'm gonna get really active again, I think, in twenty twenty six 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

Because I see that as another 

Speaker 0

Sure. 

Speaker 2

Wave you can ride. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So take it from age twenty seven, twenty eight. I know one you know, more recently, you've sold off your property management company and hit much higher levels personally. We're not gonna get into too many details there, but, walk us through, you know, twenty seven through where you are today. I know that's a long period of time, but, yeah, if you can hit some, some highlights and some lowlights because we like to keep it real on this show. You know, you came from from nothing financially. Yep. You know, walk us through, say, twenty seven through the next ten or fifteen years. 

Speaker 2

So in two thousand nine, I ended up buying three property management companies. So, you know, basically, I was looking for deals, you know, anxious to do something, anything. The market just crashed. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And, I wanted to start buying distressed apartments. 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

And I started going up to New York, meeting with private equity, and they basically said, look. You're you're too young. You have no track record. Get the hell out of here. And so, you know, I basically would ask them, you know, what would it take for you to partner with me? And he said, listen. We partner with established, you know, fully integrated investment companies. You know, the property management, they do the construction, everything in in house. Yeah. And so an opportunity came up to buy a property management company, and I bought it. And then he had you know, this guy had another friend, up in South Carolina, and I bought his property management company. And then I bought a third out of bankruptcy. So you look up. In one year, I have twenty thousand units that I was managing. I didn't have any ownership in them, but I was managing them. Something like seven hundred employees. And, you know, I was going back up to New York, and we looked like a big company. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

And we were. And so and I put I say I bought a lot of gray hair. You know, I would put these people that had been in the multifamily business for twenty something years on my, you know, pitch deck. And, you know Yeah. I was I was a young guy hiding behind me, essentially. I was the guy out in front. I was the guy finding the deals, doing the networking, things like that. Yeah. But these people were the ones that were running the day to day, creating the value, and they were they had the experience. Right. 

Speaker 0

And so by association, you have a lot more credibility. And so and also you were saying that it sounds like the property management purchases were not the purchasing of those companies, it was not the end in and of itself. Right? It was to get to where you wanted to be with private equity in New York. So, how did that all go from there after that first year of running three property management companies? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Basically, you know, that was that was liftoff. I mean, I started getting backed. First big deal I did was two hundred and twenty two units. You know, I bought it. After that, I bought a four u a four property portfolio. I think it was something like six hundred units in Houston, Texas. Mhmm. And it was just a tear. I mean, we went from, you know, kind of begging to do deals to doing billions of acquisitions a year. Unlike a lot of my competitors, I didn't cling to properties. I mean, somebody told me a long time ago saying, do you wanna be king, or do you wanna be rich? You know? And a lot of these people, you know, would grow their portfolio, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy Mhmm. Who wanted to be, you know, walk around in town. Atlanta is a big real estate town. Mhmm. Yeah. You know, guys like me. And they they would wanna go around town and talk about how big their portfolio is. And people would ask me, you know, Pat, what's your goal? How many what's your goal on how many units you wanna have? And I'd say zero. I wanna best sell them all. You know, so I make money. And, you know, it's just it's a different model. And, you know, I always knew if I made money for my investors Yeah. You're I'm gonna make money in my you know, for myself. 

Speaker 0

Sure. 

Speaker 2

And so, you know, again, back to the lucky, you know, getting lucky. I had a model where if I had hit a certain, you know, return, I sold. You know, I didn't keep waiting, keep, you know, bet you know, betting on things, keep going up, go keep going up, keep going up. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

So establish relationships with probably twelve of the biggest institutional investors in the country. You know, I'd go up to New York about every two weeks, and these guys had no business doing bit you know, business with me. I didn't go to college. Mhmm. I was kind of a screw up early on, and they just had to in a way that I presented things. I presented our company. I presented how we had been successful. I presented on how we had a unique way of finding opportunities. And, you know, I just made it so good. It's hard to say no. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Oh, yeah. Okay. So so and then over the years, did your those three property management companies merge into one, or how did that work? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. We named it all Carol after me Mhmm. Which was just awesome. You know? I'd go around the country, and, you know, you walk on these properties, and everybody's wearing Carol on their shirt. And so talk about a a a proud moment. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

But, yeah, we merged those companies. Mhmm. And we got up the highest we got up to was a thousand employees. And so, we built out, you know, the property management company. I had a construction company, and I had a big investment slash acquisitions company. And, yeah, they all kinda coexisted together. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. So you were more vertically integrated, like you said, before. 

Speaker 2

Hundred percent. I mean, we did everything from, you know, even an insurance renters insurance company. So we really did everything. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

And and I would tell my investors, you know, if look, if something bad happens, you're gonna call me anyway. So, like, I I might as well do take care of it myself and do make sure it's done right. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Gotcha. So it's probably tough to answer, but looking back, how much of the financial success came from the property management directly versus because you had these property management companies, you were plugged into all these other other services and other investors, etcetera. Is it is it possible to even answer that one? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I think the property management company was probably twenty percent 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

Especially off the sale. But, you know, in real estate, property management is a means to an end. 

Speaker 0

You 

Speaker 2

know? Like you said, it it it really helps you I'd say it gives you an advantage, of information. 

Speaker 0

Right. 

Speaker 2

You're seeing for these properties and how renters are, you know, reacting. You know you know, how like, we would study income growth. You know? Are people in certain cities, you know, making more money? Is their job markets improving? Things like that. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

So you get information. Yeah. I was fortunate to sell the property management company for a good amount, but 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

I definitely made more money in buying those. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I was 

Speaker 0

just curious because, like, my, you know, my I have some single family rentals in Maryland, and I've been speaking with my property manager a good bit about, you you know, partnering or, you know, buying him out or something like that. And he's been weighing whether this is this is probably probably, you know, a hundred and, I don't know, twenty five, hundred and fifty units. Not nothing crazy. But 

Speaker 2

It's how you start. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. And he's got a construction arm that he spends most of his time with, and he's been weighing, you know, which one's better long term. How do I, you know, just, so just, I I think long you know, the what you said, it makes so much sense. He's so plugged in more than I am to all these vendors and all these just transactions and and and everything because of the property management company. He's just got a a real advantage there in in ancillary services. 

Speaker 2

I'm out, man. If you got 

Speaker 0

the There you go. So okay. So fast forward. Say say just to wrap up the the story, your story, you know, at least up to today, what does age forty to forty five, what did that look like? 

Speaker 2

You know, I went through let's see. So forty, forty to forty, I guess, one was COVID. Nothing really happened. Forty one to forty three was massive selling. You know? I felt like, again, kinda what I felt like in two thousand seven, people were paying three caps. You know? People were paying prices that could not hold up. Yeah. And so I was letting I was selling properties as fast as I possibly could and figuring that if it went lower, fine. 

Speaker 0

Right. Right. Right. 

Speaker 2

If we didn't sell at these prices, I would feel like an idiot. And so we sold as much as we could. I'd say forty three to forty five. You know, forty three, I sold my property management business, which was, I'd say, a relief. I'd had, you know, hundreds of employees for fifteen years. 

Speaker 0

And That's a lot of work and a lot of stress. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. And, you know, I I took a lot of pride in having, you know, a private business. And, you know, during COVID, I didn't lay anybody off and things like that. So it was a it was a stressful period. Mhmm. And forty five, I have been playing a lot of shuffleboard. I've been no. I have, you know, I haven't been doing much. I read a lot. I research a lot. Mhmm. I wanna be as prepared as I can Mhmm. For when the market opens back up, which I think it'll be twenty twenty six. 

Speaker 0

Okay. Now I know, you know, we've said a couple times you came from nothing financially, so you've dealt with adversity there. The show is from adversity to abundance, and oftentimes, we do branch off into, you know, health adversity or relationship adversity. Looking back on on your your own story, what would you say, you know, is kind of the biggest, the most adversity? Where where was the adversity for you when you look back at your story? 

Speaker 2

You know, multiple things. I think adversity, you know, I think I was self conscious going in you know, starting to raise capital in New York because, you know, I didn't, you know, didn't go to college. All these people had gone to Harvard, Cornell, all these really impressive schools. Mhmm. And it turned out, you know, that was a false assumption, but, you know, I felt I felt that was a hard thing to get through. Mhmm. You know, building the business, you just or at least I did, put so much stress and damage, you know, on myself. You know? I think I was stressed every single day. I was barely sleeping. You know, it was just you know, it was it was fueled with, you know, unsustainable adrenaline. And so, you know, I found out you know, recently, I I struggle with some mental health problems that were probably brought on during that period. Mhmm. They probably helped me. You know? Yeah. You know, as I get a little older, definitely dealing with some of the ramifications. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Gotcha. 

Speaker 2

Looking back, I would have at least, you know, instead of a hundred percent of my focus on this, maybe ten percent on, 

Speaker 0

you know, 

Speaker 2

sure I'm healthy and Yeah. Make sure I'm playing well 

Speaker 0

That's good. 

Speaker 2

Long game. 

Speaker 0

And and not to, you know, hijack the the episode, but it's, on a lesser scale, but I I've I can relate for sure. I was I was running a loan servicing company that frankly didn't go so well, but it was so stressful for me personally, and I was not, you know, taking care of myself or, you know, just so over the last year, I've just been much more focused on, honestly, playing pickleball and, like, those are my own personal health and mental health as well, and it's just been a nice reset period. We've had several episodes specifically about mental health, on on the the podcast, and one was, about bipolar disorder and whether or not it can be a superpower. And I know that, you know, there's obviously downside, and and, frankly, we've in my my home, we've dealt with some real mental health challenges. But I know there's also a higher rate among entrepreneurs. There's a big crossover between mental health disorders, challenges, conditions, whatever you wanna say, and entrepreneurship. And you can probably debate all day long, you know, is it, which one came first? Did the business create this mental health condition? Or or are you prone to be an entrepreneur because you have ADHD, and I'm not labeling anybody here. I'm just throwing that out there. Yeah. What do you what do you have to say about that, if anything? 

Speaker 2

Well, I got recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder. 

Speaker 0

Oh. 

Speaker 2

So I do think it's, in a way, a superpower. Mhmm. I mean, I look at my thirties, and it was just it was, you know, organized chaos. You know? It was, you know, I look back, and I'm like, how did I do that? And, again, I think the creativity that comes with it, the, you know, ability to kind of strategize, the ability to look out three to five years, I think that all correlates. I think that's something entrepreneurs can do all do Mhmm. Successful ones. You have to be able to see around corners, and you have to have, you know, almost unhuman like stamina. And you have to have the appetite to take risk and the, you know, the wherewithal. And I think it's all a byproduct. The the negatives are, you know, you could hit walls. People don't experience. Right? So the highs are higher and the the lows are lower. Sure. And, you know, a lot of people throughout, you know, when they're dealing with it, self medicate in unhealthy ways and things like that. The good news is there's just a lot of advancement, you know, a lot of knowledge around it 

Speaker 0

Right. 

Speaker 2

And a lot of openness. I mean, just the fact that we're talking about 

Speaker 0

it Right. 

Speaker 2

The way I grew up, you know We wouldn't talk about it. Hell no. No. Hell no. Hell no. I mean 

Speaker 0

right. I I, a while back, interviewed a a guy who was a a business coach for me on this show. We talked a lot about mental health as well. And, yeah, we were actually lacrosse, buddies back in college, and he was a little he's a little bit older than I am. But it it hit me during that episode that there's no way we would have been talking about breath work that we both do. Okay. You know? It's like, I would have been laughed off the field if I brought if I brought that up with somebody. 

Speaker 2

Screwed off. Yeah. 

Speaker 0

Exactly. So, you know, I I do think there's a there's a an extreme to either side, which isn't good, where you can end up focusing on, you know, somebody's mental health challenges too much, and you can get stuck there. Yeah. But to not acknowledge it or pretend that it's not real or you're just you're just weak because you're, you know, you're depressed or something, it's just ridiculous. So I think we've come a long way. There's so much they they don't know, though, in the in in, you know, just we're just scratching the surface as far as knowledge goes. But this is another, you know, five or six episodes we could have on this topic. So, but yeah. I mean, sounds like you looking back, you you know, you do think there's a a necessary there's a requirement, you know, for an extreme amount of focus on the business and that drive and that work ethic, and you're not saying, you know, everything should be always balanced, you you know, a hundred percent balanced in your life. But but don't go so far to the extreme where you're you're causing serious mental health damage or physical health challenges. Is that fair to say? 

Speaker 2

It's fair to say. It's hard to do. 

Speaker 0

Right. A lot of this on this show, it's easy to talk about. Right? Yeah. But hard to do. 

Speaker 2

I always thought, you know, if my competitors weren't working on the weekends, I was gonna be working on the weekends. You know? If If they were not working over the Christmas holiday, I'd be working over the Christmas holiday. Like, I always wanted that edge. Yeah. And I wanted I think it just from my own mental, you know, mentality. Mhmm. I didn't know I was outworking them. I wanted to know that, you know, when it came to compete, I was better prepared. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Absolutely. I've got some questions to run through. But before we get there, talk about some of the philanthropy and, mentorship that you're involved with. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I've been heavily involved with the boys and girls club. Last year, we did a a million dollar shoe giveaway, which was, you know, hundred thousand dollars in of shoes in ten different, cities, which was awesome. I mean, you got to see, these young kids get pair of Jordans, get a pair of awesome shoes, and versus, you know, just donating some money and and not knowing where it goes. You got that gratification, which was a lot of fun. That's right. I've done, you know, various charities from, you know, special needs. And, I mean, I I've supported a lot. I've even supported material, which is important. You know? I think, you know, the whole the whole world Mhmm. Needs help. You know? And I if you just get too focused on, you know, you know, what's, you know, what's in your wheelhouse, you leave a lot of things. And so even mental health, I mean, I've thought about doing a lot of, a lot of charity around that. And so, but I think just going back and and on a mentorship, I mean, be it my Instagram, I have over a million followers. I, you know, at least two or three times a week, you know, all answer people will DM me, hey. Can I talk to you for twenty minutes or whatever? And I'm happy to do it. It's it's just a fulfilling, you know, feeling. Mhmm. Something that, frankly, I was able to get when I was coming up. You know, I would meet with guys. I would look up what I thought was the most successful guy in town Mhmm. And talk to him. Hey. Can I have a cup of coffee with you? Hey. And they said yes. You know? And it's like, these kids are shocked when I say yes. Or if somebody DM's me and I respond or whatever, and it just you know, one, it's you you know, I'm a humble guy. It's like, holy you know, these guys are you know? And people come up to me, and it's like, wow. You were nice enough to say hi. I'm like, why would I not be? 

Speaker 0

I'm 

Speaker 2

like, I'm so fortunate. And I you know, I still feel like I'm this twenty year old guy just getting started, not this old man. You know? But, it's, that's the mentorship to me is probably the biggest thing. You know? One thing to stroke a check. It's another give your time. 

Speaker 0

And Absolutely. 

Speaker 2

You know, and it's hard to say which one is more important. I mean Yeah. You know, you can certainly help a lot of people, you know, and I think the next generation is so important. Mhmm. So you can give wisdom versus, you know, again, stroking a checker. I'm not the biggest proponent for college. I mean, if you look at a lot of the intelligent thought leaders in this country, you know, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, this, that, whatever, they're saying it's not needed. Mhmm. That I mean, you you're not you shouldn't be educated. Mhmm. Giving education away, that's meaningful, I think, is is important. 

Speaker 0

Absolutely. That's really, really good. I thought I thought all, you know, real estate real estate investors were were greedy and, penny pinchers, but I guess there are a couple good guys out there. No. All kidding aside, I think it's just we need to promote that more and just talk about how doesn't have to be real estate investing, but successful, you know, capitalists, you can say, or entrepreneurs actually often wanna give back and do give back, and it's you're creating. You're adding value constantly. So, I just think that's something we need to celebrate more. You ready for some, more rapid fire questions here, Patrick? 

Speaker 2

Sure. 

Speaker 0

What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? 

Speaker 2

I'm a nice guy. 

Speaker 0

So you are a nice guy or you're not a nice guy? 

Speaker 2

I am a nice guy. 

Speaker 0

And they think you're not. Gotcha. And that's just from, the the vibe you put off, or why do you think they think that? 

Speaker 2

Maybe the vibe I give off also, I dig the pre, you know, pre thought out motion that, like you said, real estate guys have their elbows and things like that. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. What's one of your biggest failures, and what did you learn from that experience? 

Speaker 2

Probably my divorce. I got divorced when I was forty. Mhmm. And that's a failure all across the board. I mean, even if, you know, you you're better off separated or whatever, it has an impact on your kids. It has an impact on everyone. And, you know, just the way I reacted, you know, it's it's my reaction was not the best. So that was probably that was probably the 

Speaker 0

worst. Gotcha. If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be? 

Speaker 2

Get ready for it. You know, it's coming. And, you know, I I used to see myself in the you know, I visualize who I wanted to be. I wanted to be this successful guy in this biz you know, in a suit and Mhmm. Be well respected and this, that, whatever. Do big deals. And I would say just get ready. You know? It doesn't matter how you're gonna get there. You are gonna get there. Just keep pushing. 

Speaker 0

Nice. Now for some guests, this question is a big number, and for others, it's not so big. But if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with that? 

Speaker 2

Stick it in bonds right now. Five per or not you know, just you can get money market five percent. Mhmm. But I would be looking, you know, I would be looking at smaller deals. I wouldn't do one deal. So maybe I'd do ten deals that, you know, needed a million dollars in capital per deal if I was just getting started. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

If it was me personally 

Speaker 0

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

You know, I would be looking at doing something I've already done, multifamily, things like that. I would be looking for seven percent going in on cash flow. And if I couldn't find that, I would be, you know, I'd be patient. And so, you know, that's just it's Yeah. You know? Number one rule of investing is don't lose money. 

Speaker 0

That's really good. So for someone starting out in their career, you know, they wanna do real estate investing. They're not sure what niche to go into. You know, they're they're somewhat aware of current market conditions, but they don't have a lot of capital, but they've got time and energy. What advice would you give to them right now? 

Speaker 2

Start out in a single family market. Housing is look. Housing's like the biggest business in the country, not the world. Somebody told me a while ago, you can't create a a virtual house or a virtual place to live. You know? If you look at office market, you know, we're sitting on Zoom right now. That's done virtually. Shopping could be done virtually. You know? You can't create virtual living environment. Mhmm. So housing's always gonna be here, whether it's single family residential, multifamily, whatever. So if you don't have a lot of capital, but you can bring a lot of hustle, a lot of value to the table. Yeah. Find people that have idle capital and and want that. You know, there's a lot of a lot of idle capital. There's a lot more capital than there is hustle and deal flow. And so I think, you know, I think you have to be creative, though, in that first deal. The first deal is always the hardest. Mhmm. Don't try to do a fifty million dollar deal right out of the gate. Right. Start with this couple single family by the way, the business model on single family investments is the same on hundred you know, two hundred unit multifamily deals. 

Speaker 0

Just a couple more zeros. 

Speaker 2

That's right. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. 

Speaker 0

Okay. So in the single family space, like fix and flip or and and, you know, I know every situation is different. There's no one size fits all answer, but I now know I I wanna go single family real estate investing. What do I do? 

Speaker 2

I like to fit fix and flip, and I would stay in a market that's not, you know, in a price bracket. It's not above a million dollars. So I would wanna be what I always did in my apartments was I didn't wanna be in the bottom ten percent. I didn't wanna be in the top ten percent. 

Speaker 0

Okay. 

Speaker 2

I would look at where eighty percent of the people, you know, or less. You know? I'd look and try to refine where I wanna where the most people can buy at, you know, especially in today's interest rates. And that's where I'd be targeting. So where and I'd focus really on locations. You know? Best school districts. I'd wanna be the cheapest house in an expensive neighborhood or something like that. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. How do you define mental fitness in the context of real estate investing? We've talked about this some, but speak to that briefly. 

Speaker 2

I can tell you how I got to where I am, and you have to be the craziest guy in the room. You have to you have to because it's a aggressive business, and you have to be willing to, you know, stand up for yourself. And I said crazy. It's just you have to be aggressive. You have to be willing to not back down. You have to be and even if that's not yelling and whatever. Even if it's keep it to yourself, but just knowing these people are trying to outsmart you. These people are trying to win win win. Mhmm. You be like that. I think you also have to, realize that, you know, that give yourself self confidence. You know? Put in the work. And if you've prepared, you know, the right way Mhmm. Feel confident. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Yeah. I've heard the the the, I guess, guidance, or the principle that, reps lots of reps lead to competence, which leads to confidence. So Right. You know, start with one deal, like you said, and create that momentum, then you put in reps and keep doing it, and then you realize I am good at this. And that that then you build more confidence, and it kinda feeds itself. In the real estate investing space, whether commercial, you know, residential, whatever, what is one thing that you see right now that's controversial, out there that, you know, people should avoid? 

Speaker 2

Overpaying? Yeah. Forcing deals. I mean, forcing deals are when your gut tells you this thing doesn't work, when your the numbers don't look good, but you just do it just to do it. Never ends well. Happens a lot. I see a lot of people online. I don't wanna name names. They're raising a lot of cap online, that that's controversial to me. It's you know, when you raise a bunch of money, even though, you know, the market's not, you know, attractive to be investing in, you have a gun to your head to put it to work. You know, you owe investors returns, you know, so you're highly incentivized to do deals whether they make sense or not. And so to me, that never ends up well. You know, I will certainly be back in the investing game whether I raise, you know, money, you know, that way or whether I go back to partnering with big institutions, but I just it's not not the right time. You know? There's five hundred thousand units being delivered this year. That's gonna hurt the the market a lot, at least from a rent growth time, you know, standpoint. So whenever I see a lot of people rushing to do deals, it just makes me wonder about their motivations. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Makes a lot of sense. Alright. As we wrap up here, Patrick, how has financial abundance made your life better? 

Speaker 2

A lot of ways. I mean, it's, it's given me the ability to give back. It's given me the ability to, you know, live a really nice life, you know, to kind of be able to step back and have patience. You know? I think I never really had that before. You know, I think, you know, I still feel like I'm broke. I wake up every morning and feel broke, and I think that's a good thing. I don't you know, as much as people want abundance and I used to read books on abundance and Deepak Chopra and try to, you know, getting abundance. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

You know, as much as you like, I know I don't want it. You know, I want to keep on it. I don't wanna, you know, lay around and feel like I'm set. I still wanna keep that hunger now. You know, obviously, I don't wanna give away the money that I had, all of it. But, you know, waking up and and staying hungry and and looking for that next opportunity and things like that is what I want. I don't want to feel like I've already made it, and, you know, I've got nothing left to prove, and I'm I'm on cruise control. I don't want that. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And it's probably wouldn't be good for your physical health, mental health, etcetera, or those around you if you just kinda coasted the rest of your life. Right? What is a book or two that you could recommend? 

Speaker 2

Oh, let's see. Sam Zell's book is great. It says it's got something to do with bullshit. It says something about bullshit. And then Gerald Heinz's book or Trammell Crow. I'm gonna say Trammell Crow's book. Somebody should read that for sure. And somebody starting right out is cash flow or Robert, Rich Dad Poor Dad. 

Speaker 0

Mhmm. Yeah. I know. I do, like, cash flow quadrant. The Sam Zell book, is that am I being too subtle, or is that a different one? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think that one works. Yeah. 

Speaker 0

Gotcha. Well, that was a good good list right there. What is one question, Patrick, that I have not asked that you wish I had? 

Speaker 2

Let's see here. You gotta you gotta, you know, you gotta be okay with being, you know, not part of the crowd. Meaning, like, you know, if you're part of the crowd, if you, you know, if you're just doing everything everybody else does, how are you gonna be successful? And so, you know, when I was getting my business really, you know, growing significantly Mhmm. Mhmm. Everybody in the real estate business went to the same country club. They all, you know, were buddy buddy, this, that, whatever. I was kind of an outlier. Mhmm. And I would say, I don't want my competitors to know everything about me. I wanted to be a competitor. Yeah. So I think even when you're starting out, you know, your friends and family are gonna question what you're what are you doing? Oh my god. Yeah. Right. He's gonna be an entrepreneur. Oh my god. He's gonna be real estate mogul blah blah blah. Half thick skin. Don't care. You know? And and, you know, especially as you grow, grow, grow, there's gonna be jealousy. And so you have to be comfortable in your own skin. You have to be, you know, improving yourself. I improve a little bit every day. And, you know, that's that's what I would say. 

Speaker 0

That's really good. If you're not getting some type of friction or people asking questions or conflict even in your life, maybe you're not going against the grain enough and thinking thinking differently, and you're gonna end up as just like everyone else. Right? 

Speaker 2

Worst thing in the world for me would be to be average. You know? 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Got it. No. This has been fantastic, Patrick. Really, really good. I'm just so thankful you've been able to spend time with us. So, this is this is one I'm definitely gonna listen to again for sure. A lot of gold nuggets in this one. Patrick Carroll, anything else you wanna add before we hop off? 

Speaker 2

No. For real estate investors that wanna continue to get information like this, my Instagram just spelled out just like my name, Patrick, c a r r o l l. 

Speaker 0

Yeah. Okay. That was my that was my final question is where can our listeners find you online? So Instagram is the main main place, it sounds like. Any any other ways to reach out to you? 

Speaker 2

Not right now. 

Speaker 0

Got it. Makes sense. Alright. Well, thank you so much. Wish you the best of luck, and, yeah, I'd love to have you back on in the future when you're, you know, when you've kind of gotten back in the game, so to speak, a little more and and see where your what what the future looks like for you from there. So 

Speaker 2

Sounds good. 

Speaker 0

Thanks thank you so much, Patrick. And to the listener, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Take care, everyone. 

Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.