Adopting Children and Business Principles: How Founder Dave Smith Gives Back through $10 Million Company

Speaker 0

 

In this episode, I chatted with Dave Smith, a friend of mine, Dave's the founder and owner of Smith House de design and build. He went from almost filing bankruptcy to now he has a ten million dollar company construction company in Maryland more than just construction. We'll get into that in the episode, but we talk about how Dave, how he decided to start a business why he went into business for himself, how his partnership initially, he he had a partnership, which didn't go so well, and they had to exit, the business because they didn't know what they were doing from a financial standpoint. And and then, really the first few years of his business how how that was super challenging. And we dive a lot into how he's given back and how, I don't wanna spoil the episode, but the ups and downs of fostering and adopting children is a a centerpiece of this one. And and, also how his company has grown massively in the last fifteen years. And like I said, ten million dollar company now. Now they're able to do all kinds of service related projects, and they're actually building their own organization and network to make a huge impact, for those who are underprivileged It's just such a a refreshing conversation that Dave feels extremely blessed and, and has been blessed and recognizes the opportunities that he's had, and has made the most of them to give back to others. But it hasn't been all rainbows and and butterflies and unicorns for sure. So lots of wisdom in this one. This is not one you're gonna wanna miss.

 

Speaker 1

 

Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you in packed stories of real people who have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of abundance. A life of abundance. You are not alone in your struggle. Join us, and you will experience the power of true stories and gain knowledge from founders who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage through your health, relationship, and financial challenges so you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life you are destined to live. Turn your adversity into abundance.

 

Speaker 0

 

Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us a friend of mine, Dave Smith. Dave is the founder and owner of Smith House Design and Build, Dave, how are you doing today?

 

Speaker 2

 

Good, Jamie. Thanks for having me. Really honored to to, be here.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. This is gonna be a fun one. Dave and I have known each other each other for years, and, I've paid Dave a lot of money over the years, and, I'm kidding, but but not really, but no. We've worked we've worked with with Dave and his company for years, which is is, has been fantastic, and we'll get into that. So Dave tell us give us a little bit more context for the listener out there. Who who are you and what are you up to today?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So, owner, Smith house, design, and build. Our company, we're Baltimore based. And, We've been in business eighteen years. We, our home remodeling company, we we that's kind of our our sweet spot So sort of all things home. So whether it's a large addition Hall House renovation or handyman, you know, we kinda encompass all that. We you know, have cabinetry offerings in house and design offerings, obviously, in house. And, and, yeah, fun. We enjoy it. We love it.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's awesome. I mean, we'll obviously get in a little bit later into some of the ups and downs of the the business. We're gonna dive into that. I can't wait for that. But, So what just before we jump into your backstory though, what does, kind of give us a picture of what the company looks like? You know, number of employees, number of projects. What do you have going on today?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep. So we, we have forty five people on staff and, you know, on on the bill division, what we call it, you know, we normally have maybe ten to twelve projects going at a time in the handyman division. It it's all over the map, because they're much smaller smaller jobs. But, you know, it's it's a fun growth story because, you know, we at the beginning of of the company really had no clue what we were what we were doing, what I was doing, and, and we've grown, and in some ways, I feel like we're just getting started, but, you know, we're around a ten million dollar company right now.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. It's helpful for context. I mean, it's That's a that's impressive. Although it sounds like you're poised for for growth. So we'll we'll get into that. So talk to the the listener out there who maybe they're not they're working a w two. And, I don't know. Maybe they're working for a construction company or and they're thinking about starting their own their own small business or it doesn't even have to be in construction, but take us back really to before you started Smith House and and, you know, why did you wanna jump into being an entrepreneur, what what was your mindset at that time? What were the what was the context of your life? I know there are a lot of questions there, but just kind of Let's jump back to before you started Smith house and and what you were thinking and what your your, kind of, thoughts were to, as far as starting a small business.

 

Speaker 2

 

Sure. You know, there's some people I think that started a business. It seems was a very clear. I I want to do this and I want to build this and and that that wasn't my story. I, you know, I graduated from Penn State with a history degree. And -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

There you go. --

 

Speaker 2

 

I had I had done construction during the summer times, just to, you know, raise money and so forth. And I went back to that. I had the opportunity to go be a full time employee. Of the first, I worked for a general contractor. He was an old school guy. He did everything. Thing. So he it was, you know, he would be ashamed to sub anything out. So we did electrical, the plumbing, the concrete, the the everything. And I was actually his first full time employee he had ever hired in twenty one years of of business. A lot. So I learned a lot. And

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Sure. -- I I went back to work for him after college. And long story short, I just you know, I I tend to call it Saldust in the blood. I I just I loved it. I I loved the work. But what I, particularly, I began to saw, you know, I began to see is that Remodeling, it was an opportunity when when somebody set came and said I want a new kitchen. I wanna renovate my kitchen What they were really asking for was was a change in life and and just, they wanna do experience their home differently. And so it was neat to be able to work inside people's you know, enter into someone's life in such a personal space in their home and just get I got to see the value that the the work we did added to them, and that was very fulfilling for me.

 

Speaker 0

 

No. That's really good because, I mean, several things I could unpack there. Obviously, we don't have time to unpack every every bit of this, but that's, you know, for one, as you said you enjoyed the the work, and I was gonna say I've never I've seen you with maybe a clipboard, but I haven't seen you, you know, with a with a hammer or saw. But, No. I'm kidding. But but, I love the fact that one, you didn't have a this yeah. I think it's so easy for successful business owners to look back and say, well, yeah, I had this great vision, and this is exactly how I saw this happening eighteen, twenty years ago. And the reality is that's not usually the case. And even if you had that grand plan, it probably wasn't gonna turn out exactly that way. So I I like that you're just honest and real about that. You know, sometimes it's just a matter of getting getting started and, looking at your strengths, but the other thing that I heard you say was, at least, you inferred was that basically, you were listening to the client and and that it was bigger than just construction, like, some, you know, so I think there's There's some metaphor analogy about a guy building a wall and, you know, I forget. You can you can Google it, but it's it's more than just laying it's it's creating this this masterpiece and and how are the the people is really about serving people is what you're what you're getting to. So that that's awesome. And I know over the years, you're you're you and your team have always always been very good at listening and not just forcing what you want on the customer. You actually wanna understand, you know, what they want. So, anyway, how did how did the first you know, what what did the first year of business look like take us back to that time?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And just real quick to to kinda follow-up with what you just said. I think along with that, I I I quickly learned that it was almost kind of this theme. If if somebody has a home, I can help them because it it was so much more than just that client. It was my mom or, you know, the neighbor who has an issue. It it was something that could be applied in so many ways that If he's at home, I can I can possibly be of value to you, which is really neat? And and kind of addictive a little bit.

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, and and just very quickly, that's that's the the this really gets to the crux of this podcast is I used to be a part of the a note investing podcast, and that's that was really great. But what the episodes that we had that really people really love were were the human, the human side of things where we dove dove into people's back stories. And that's what we wanna draw out in this in this show is there's a human element to all of this. And then, what you're saying is if if you if they had a home, you could help them. Well, there are a lot of lot of homes out there. Right? So you could sounds like you immediately saw you could help a lot of people. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Absolutely. And so, yeah, so even for the, you know, you mentioned if there's somebody listening that is in construction and maybe considering it, you know, kind of thing and toying what's doing their own thing. I I think for me, what what made me take that step, and this was about a year and a half after graduating from college, that happened. Was, you know, where I I was. I a great guy I worked for, but there there just wasn't the the vision for what we could do and build together. And and really wasn't able to give things away. To to me, to own, in terms of kind of micromanaging. And and I can remember that the day still I was nailing up base trim in someone's kitchen for the five hundredth time. And he was standing over my shoulder watching to make sure I did it correctly. And and I remember turning and saying, buddy, like, I got this.

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

I'll finish this job. You go run another one, and we'll really build this thing. And it just it wasn't where he was comfortable.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Which not right or wrong. It's just a comfort level. And for me, I I wanted to build something. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs start their business because they see that they can do it better. Yeah. I mean, not I mean, no one wants to be micromanaged. I hate that. Right? But But it sounds like you realize, like, you know, if I was in this guy's shoes, we could really blow this thing up in a in a good way. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And and a lot of it is I am kind of a growth junkie. Mhmm. So to me, to kinda be, you know, what's kinda doing the same thing and not really growing. And that puts me to sleep. It drives me nuts. I I wanna be building something and it's expanding and And so we just looked at things differently.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yep.

 

Speaker 2

 

And so starting off this very couple of years is There's more stories than than we have time for. But, I I really was a really a carpenter assistant kind of skill level and had no clue about the business side of things. I can remember, you know, one of my first larger jobs we were converting a two car garage into a family room. And I remember doing the estimate, and you know, starting to get a sense of, man, it it kinda cost a lot of money to have a truck payment and kinda I gotta pay for insurance and starting to get a little bit of that stuff. And

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

you know, I can remember doing the estimate in in in the estimate form charging myself out at thirteen dollars an hour. And feeling guilty about it because I I had been paid nine at my prior job, and I was like, I don't know if they're gonna go for this.

 

Speaker 0

 

Highway robbery. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

But there's no no concept of of overhead and and

 

Speaker 0

 

It's surprising your your history to read and prepare you for that. But,

 

Speaker 2

 

Right. With history.

 

Speaker 0

 

I'm just kidding. But, yeah, I I mean, Yeah. That and it's really that's it gets to the the point of the whole I mean, running a business, whether it's construction or, restaurant, is completely different than, you know, being, building the house or cooking. Right? So, yeah, running a business is is a whole different beast. I don't think any of us are fully prepared for it when we make the leap into entrepreneurship. So, so this first couple years. Well, well, first of all, what would you say to the listener who they haven't started a business that, you know, how do they decide? I mean, We understand it's not a one size fits all. There's not, you know, everyone should be an entrepreneur. That's definitely not the case. But Looking back, how would you advise someone who's who is now in your shoes, you know, when you were working for for that other company, to decide whether they should start a company or not.

 

Speaker 2

 

Mhmm. You know, I think for me, there's it it's hard to it's hard to say to someone whether I think they should start a company or not. I think for me, it what I've learned is I just had a lot of opportunity, that was presented to me. And And, yes, it took, you know, a lot of grit and determination and things like that. But Sure. But, ultimately, it it's I almost you know, if you think of, like, a, you know, the old school tricycle with the big wheel on the front and the two I almost think of it opportunity is that big wheel in my experience as a business owner. Okay. And the capacity and grit kind of the the back too. And -- Okay.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

for me, I I had lots of opportunities. And it's it's almost like the opportunities or what drove that train initially. Uh-huh. And, yes, I had grit and I worked my butt off and I had the capacity to kinda do that. But it's it's it's kinda, like, for me, you know, when you start, if you haven't exercised in a while. It's you look you look great, by the way, Jamie.

 

Speaker 0

 

Thanks, David.

 

Speaker 2

 

Thanks. If you haven't exercised for a while, when you first start going back to the gym, you you only really get at least in my experience. I only get motivated after I've gone for a while. Like, the motivation isn't there right out the gate. I kinda have to it up for the first couple of months. And then it becomes a little bit more addictive and I get more motivated. Running a business or sometimes even with, you know, complicated things like that, it it's it's like that term in my experience where I had opportunities. I responded to those. And then as I'm going down the path, It's -- Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

it just builds the grit, the hard work. It's kinda building on one

 

Speaker 0

 

another itself. Yep.

 

Speaker 2

 

It does.

 

Speaker 0

 

Build upon itself. So, yeah, I guess, you know, I guess, you know, why didn't you just if you didn't like being micromanaged by this guy and, hopefully, he doesn't listen to this. Why didn't you just go work for another contractor, though, as opposed to starting your own business? Sounds like because you saw the opportunity and it and it it you know, it just you saw how you could help so many people. But I guess, you know, anything to add there as far as why you didn't just get another job versus starting starting your own company because they're two very different things.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Good question. I think that One thing I've learned about myself is I I do enjoy kinda charting my own path. Sure. Yeah. At the same time, that's that's also led to some adversity. And the story of

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

you know, Smith House. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

I I would say for people, you know, just this is my own two cents, Look, the life has seasons just because you start a business doesn't mean that's what you're gonna do for the rest of your life. So maybe you try it for a couple years or and and you put in that grid and it it it starts, maybe you realize this is what you're supposed to do or maybe you realize you're no. You should go backwards and maybe not backwards or pivot and get a w two. I mean, there's nothing wrong with trying to start a business. And, but it's not a not always a permanent thing either. So, yeah. There's just my two cents there. So let's talk about obviously, we're gonna have to gloss over some of the some of the ups and downs of of the business, but I I know you had some struggles early on in the business. Let's talk about that. What was what were some of the what was some of the adversity you faced with the business?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So, again, I you know, we it was at the beginning, it was me and and a few, you know, great guys that were working with me, but we were honest, hard working guys, but really did not have a background and skill and things like that that we we knew how things needed to happen. I just knew we could figure it out. And so I love that. Yeah. First couple of years was, you know, I wasn't very social with friends. I was on the nice and weekends, I was reading and studying on

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

construction and, you know, all things home. And and then the finance side of things, and it it was kinda going to school on those kind of things. And then about a year and a half in, I, I joined up with another guy. We we had a formed a partnership, and That lasted about a little over a year. K. And one of the challenges was that is that he was in a similar boat where we we loved construction. We loved carpentry and building. But, again, the business side was not They

 

Speaker 0

 

You brought you brought similar skill sets to the table. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

We did. Yeah. And without realizing it, we had gone into debt.

 

Speaker 0

 

I see.

 

Speaker 2

 

To the, you know, tune of, you know, sixty five thousand dollars. Which at that time was a ton of money.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. So just briefly, we won't stay there for too long, but how Is that, like, credit credit card debt, or how how did that work?

 

Speaker 2

 

No. Not necessarily. It it it really was we we weren't charging enough for project. Mhmm. So we weren't really making money on project. However -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

we didn't feel that as long as we were busy. Sure. Because it was there was still an inflow of cash, and there wasn't a great accounting of You know? Yeah. Our expenses, what we owed people. Yeah. And then when things slowed down, you know, this was kinda two thousand six ish for a couple of months, then it all of a sudden was like, oh my gosh. You know, we're fully paid up and we owe people a lot of money.

 

Speaker 0

 

So you have vendors or subcontractors or

 

Speaker 2

 

We did.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. Okay. Understood.

 

Speaker 2

 

A lot of them. And it was it was painful and, you know, lots of People were telling us to declare bankruptcy. And, you know, it was a challenging time. We split the partnership split at that point. And -- Okay.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

I kinda had to make the call at that point. What am I gonna do? Am I gonna Am I gonna continue on with this or am I gonna call it quits and declare bankruptcy and things like that. Well,

 

Speaker 0

 

I didn't realize it had gotten that. I knew a little bit about that, but that's you know, it's pretty real. So what's what's going through your mind at an at that point? And how is that affecting your Let's be honest, your ego and confidence as a, you know, as a as an entrepreneur or as a as a man. I mean, how how's this making you what's going through your mind?

 

Speaker 2

 

I mean, it was certainly one of those life moments where you felt broken, you know. And, I can remember just balling. And, you know, with with a a family member, my dad talking about it. And, and, you know, over the course of a couple days, just did a lot of deep thinking of what what was gonna be the next move. And I just Mhmm. I did not I know our situation's different, but at that time, it was just it was such a small company, and there was such small relationships with different subcontractors and things. I just the bankruptcy was just not an option for me. I just Mhmm. I couldn't consider it. So I it was kind of a decision, like, we're gonna we're gonna do this. Mhmm. And, thankfully, had some help you know, through a, you know, a little family loan kinda from my dad to help us get over that pump and, you know, came to an agreement with all the various subcontractors, kind of payment plans and things like that. And Around the same time, we became pregnant with my our first.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. And as exciting as that may be, imagine you see a doll dollar sign of expenses --

 

Speaker 2

 

Oh my god. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

for being honest. Right? Absolutely. I I already, for a couple of months, have not been paying myself You know, it was just trying we were just living off of my wife's salary, which was not you know, much kind of an administrative assistant kind of level. Got pregnant, I I didn't, you know, take a salary for close to a year. And so that was, you know, it was a lot of

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. -- to grind. It was

 

Speaker 0

 

I appreciate you sharing this because, you know, it's look, we're not We've had we've had guests cry on the show. We're not trying to get there, but, you know, that's there's no that that's not the goal, but it's you know, this is very real. And this wasn't like a it's gonna be a fifteen minutes in a podcast episode, but it was a couple of years, if not, longer, of hardship that you had to go through. So for the entrepreneur who hasn't started their business, not saying that's gonna happen the same way, but are you are you up for that? Do you know? Because it's just so easy to look back or or to look now at at your your picture day the picture of Dave Smith, the successful business owner and say, man, that must be nice. You know, he's got it all together. So I I appreciate you being vulnerable and real, with us. And So, you know, you get your wife gets pregnant. So then, are you How are you attacking this problem? What what what happens next?

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, I got into a habit of underselling a a very, very dangerous habit of out underselling jobs so we get them, and we have something coming and trying to do as much as we can and maybe running more than one at a time. And

 

Speaker 0

 

So very short term short term thinking, really. Right.

 

Speaker 2

 

Short time thinking survival mode. Sure. Sure. And so right about that time, as my wife's, you know, coming due with our first, we had one of our most challenging clients in eighteen years. Fairly large call house renovation, And it it even for the purposes of this show, I I was thinking about it, it was it was me kinda asking that, you know, just thinking about the question, you know, what's what's my with my role in someone else's story. Am I part of their story of adversity or am I part of their story of abundance? Mhmm. I love that. I was absolutely they were a part of my story of adversity at that time.

 

Speaker 0

 

So so how can you explain that briefly? What what what do you mean by that?

 

Speaker 2

 

In the they, you know, Just were really challenging, you know, client. Difficult to work with. Difficult to work with, and we're more interested in their abundance than any

 

Speaker 0

 

-- I see. --

 

Speaker 2

 

anyone else. And so, kinda taking advantage of others.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

And I can remember to give an example of how that time was, but, you know, the day Alice went into, you know, labor and the day after right away, I'm I'm out working in the field. Just because of this pressure of

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

you know,

 

Speaker 0

 

a demanding client and yeah. And you've gotta

 

Speaker 2

 

make money. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Right. That's a lot. I mean, that's a it's a lot of new shoulders. I mean, that's that's a lot of pressure. For sure. So, okay. So how did it things unfold over the next the ensuing weeks and months?

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, for, you know, we we got through that time, thankfully, and, it just had some great people with me. I I JP, who's kinda been with me from day one. He's just such rock solid. And

 

Speaker 0

 

Not sure what you do without him.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. I know. Yeah. I think of I think of those relationships with that really during those tough times made such a difference. But, I think also one of the things I I learned in those early years was and, especially, if somebody is considering, whether this field or whatever, but just the value of, being okay looking like an idiot. Okay. Yeah. So so important because when you're starting something out, it it just You don't know what you don't know and just -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

being okay to to just ask someone if

 

Speaker 0

 

Right.

 

Speaker 2

 

I I would all the time ask whether it's a trade contractor whomever, like, hey, educate me about that. Tell me about that. Sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

That's good. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

And what you find is lots of times people enjoy sharing their information, sometimes too much.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. I know. Definitely.

 

Speaker 2

 

I

 

Speaker 0

 

mean, but that's where the growth happens. Right? And, you know, I I'm not saying my ego never gets in the way. I'm certainly not not saying that, but that's You know, we only have so many hours in the day. I you you you're not you can't learn you know, to be a surgeon. There there's plenty of things that you're an expert in Dave that I'm not and vice versa, and that's okay. So, you know, it's okay that I don't know. There's so much I don't know. So I'm not typically embarrassed to ask the dumb questions either because So what? I that's not my field of expertise. Like, there's, like, it's impossible to know everything. So I, But that's where the growth happens. And like I said before, you're a very good listener. And so it sounds like you surrounded yourself with experts. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but you were cleaning information from from others who knew a lot more than you and you were willing to be vulnerable and and look stupid as you said.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

So okay. So so was that just like in the, like, learning business or learning con construction or or is this, how did that look, like, tactically? You mentioned JP, but were there others like coaches or how was this how did that look?

 

Speaker 2

 

You know, I that's one thing I would say the to the coach comment, I did have consultants, and I was reaching out all the time asking how do you do this or that, but if if I could have done something earlier

 

Speaker 0

 

-- Mhmm. --

 

Speaker 2

 

it would have been to really engage and just pay for a great coach.

 

Speaker 0

 

Like a great business coach. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. I think that, you know, I I had a some coaches in the early years, but not -- Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

anything that was a real commitment that it just was a great fit. And now having had that, I think if it the light bulb moment for me, sometimes he has this kind of light bulb moment, and I can remember I don't know if you ever seen the usain Bolt movie. No.

 

Speaker 0

 

They

 

Speaker 2

 

had a documentary about him. Uh-huh. This was years ago, but I can't remember sitting there watching this, and they're interviewing the same boat. And he here, this guy is, like, the fastest human in the world. Mhmm. And he's saying I I wouldn't have been anything without my two coaches. And he's giving all the credit to his two coaches. And I'm sitting there thinking, like, if this guy's the fastest human in the world, and he's saying he'd be nothing without his coaches. Yeah. What the heck? What the heck am I doing? I need to really make this a priority. That's what I did. And it kinda never looked back.

 

Speaker 0

 

Next. So did you, at that point, like, you gotta you've started paying for a coach or, you know, was this year three or four in the business. When when did you get a coach?

 

Speaker 2

 

I I wish it was year three or four. No. This is three or four months ago. Now I'm Oh. Alright. Now Again, I had some consultants and coaches

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Right.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

the first several years of the business, but this was five, six years ago when really hunker down and got intentional with a great coach. Mhmm. That's true.

 

Speaker 0

 

So maybe we can touch on that in a little bit if we have time. But so walk us through kind of we we've kind of left off where, you know, things were really struggling in the first few years. And you're not taking salary. Kinda walk us through the next few years as far as the business goes, and then I know there there's some more personal, I guess family growth that came with some ups and downs as well. How did the next, say, five years of your life unfold?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And just to give even a high level fast forward because I've been told I, you know, people look at our life and think we just love chaos, but we, you know, five kids, three dogs. It's a very busy household, and it's kinda how about I'll get there. So during that, you know, tough time, had our our first. And then over the next couple of years, I'm I'm slowly building things with with JP and and building the business, and we're getting some good traction. You know, we're starting to to make some progress and grow, which is great. Still was not You know? You weren't you weren't killing it. So it's Glenn Pickens. Yeah. I'm for sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

The business seems stable at this point. But we're not talking financial abundance at this

 

Speaker 2

 

Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. We moved to Baltimore City, which we love that we love we're we love Baltimore And we became involved in some different organizations, and my wife, you know, was part of starting one that, you know, just worked with, you know, you know, people in either lower income areas kinda on the margins. She works specifically with organizations with teen moms and teen dad. And it was through this. That's whole time that and it was weird because it was still on this kind of season of adversity that We just our eyes were open in so many different ways to kind of the needs around us and you know, race and Baltimore and, you know, the different in the qualities that are just present and things that I witnessed even Remodeling in people's homes, the stories that, you know, some are just painful to think back on. Of, you know, some of those issues. And we we decided that we wanted to adopt, and we wanted to do it locally and domestically.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

And so we we started down that path and This was probably a year after our first was born. We officially did that. And it wasn't too long after that that you know, we we're doing the home study and we had, you know, we're starting to get things in order. And I think we had paid a three thousand dollar you know, deposit toward our adoption fee kinda thing. And at that time, somebody

 

Speaker 0

 

serious about it at that point. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

We are, which three thousand dollars at that time was -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

pretty significant sacrifice. Sure. And it was about that time you know, a friend of a friend of a friend kind of thing, that we knew from the church we were attending, knew we were sitting and adopting and said, met with us and said, hey, there's a a family that has kinda been the kids have been in and out of child protective services. You know, would you have interest in, you know, fostering or or, you know, perhaps that could lead to adoption. Mhmm. Well, at the time, we we thought about it, and it was a sibling that

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

At first, we said no.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

We would have had to forfeit the deposit we had just made. Mhmm. And there was a sibling set of four And Wow. It we just we're like, I I don't know how we're gonna swing that. It

 

Speaker 0

 

it logically, it just makes no sense. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

For

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

-- given your circumstances. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

It didn't. Well, fast forward a couple of weeks and that we got a call from yeah. This is where I could get emotional talking about it, but we got a call from someone that was, you know, caring for the the kids and, taking them out to dinner at Chick fil A and, essentially said I can't take them back to that house. I'm either going straight to social services or, you know, whatever, but it's late. Can you can you help me out and Can we come by your house for the evening until I can get in touch with CTS kind of thing? So we said yes. And and they never left. Wow. I mean, long story short, but yeah. So we we then applied became foster parents.

 

Speaker 0

 

Tom, so literally literally you wake up on a Tuesday because I I know it wasn't Sunday if they were Chick fil A.

 

Speaker 2

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

But You don't have these is it two girls? Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Three.

 

Speaker 0

 

Three. You

 

Speaker 2

 

you said four. Four. We had their brother as well.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. But you and and then that morning you don't have them and then that that night, you do. Right? Yeah. And you had no intention of that happening that day. When you woke up. So okay. So so you applied you go through the the process, the administrative and legal process of of of taking custody, or how does that work?

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, first, it would yes. To become foster parents.

 

Speaker 0

 

Foster parents.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Way to take and they because the need was such great so great, they actually allowed active foster carers before we were technically

 

Speaker 0

 

-- Gotcha. --

 

Speaker 2

 

proved, so to speak. And we very quickly just felt like this is this is What we wanna do?

 

Speaker 0

 

You should do this. This is what you're meant to do. Yeah. Well, now I mean, obviously, this is like a monumental thing in your life and and their lives as well. And, it's just not a Unfortunately, we just gloss over this stuff on the podcast and, you know, it's obviously a lot more involved and complicated. Then then we're gonna make it sound. But but just briefly, you know, at this point, I guess if you, you know, you were so wrapped up previously in your own problems, and I don't mean that and, like, need to put you down. But how did this reframe your own, like, financial challenges that you you had when you were now focused on somebody else's, challenges?

 

Speaker 2

 

You know, it's it's funny because you sometimes you hear I think last time, entrepreneurs even talking about that they learn the value of when you're kinda other focused and you're helping others that

 

Speaker 0

 

-- Yeah. --

 

Speaker 2

 

ironically helps you. And -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

and really, it's a it's a message as old as Jesus, but nonetheless, it seems new to us all the time. Despite all that. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

We need to relearn things. Like, you know Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

I know. Exactly. Despite all of that challenge and just really tough times, Mhmm. So many levels. There was still a sense of a abundance even in the midst of it because we just loved these kids and it and, you know, talk about, you know, feeling that you're adding value and providing, you're moving someone toward abundance. Yeah. In the fulfillment of that, that that was

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

That's what it was. And So we were foster parents, but that process was close to three years.

 

Speaker 0

 

Wow.

 

Speaker 2

 

It was you know, if you think of a roller coaster, the highs and the lows were extreme. Because Early on, the Maryland has one of the highest reunification rates in the country.

 

Speaker 0

 

Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

To their biological parent. And our our first foster, social services rep made no it was not unclear at all, but her clear intention was reunification.

 

Speaker 0

 

Wow. Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

With the with the biological parents. Which the more we learned of the story and the the trauma that they had gone through, it just broke your heart. Over and over again, we we had to do weekly visits with the biological parents. And Okay. You you were just on a weekly basis. You would we have the visit that would then trigger a really tough couple days of kids not understanding. And by the way, the our kids were one three, four and five at that time that are that we were fostering. And then my our our first biological son, was four. So kinda right in that mix. I see.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. So they they don't understand. I mean, that's gotta be just super challenging for for all of them as well. And confusing. I mean, I yeah. I can't I can't imagine. I mean, it's so okay. So how does the So you did that for three years, the the foster parent thing. We, you know, we make it sound like it was just a thing you did, but And then how did things progress after that three year period?

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, we we made clear that we we wanted to adopt. And -- Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

and and even, you know, we we would have several court cases a year where the judge would weigh in on whether or not what would be the decision. And those were awful because you're you pack bags just in case the decision is to reunify and, you know, that might be it. But anyway, We, ultimately, we we agreed to an open adoption and, And it's it's one of those things that's, you know, people, and they just mean well and and to totally understand it, but, you know, sometimes you get the kind of, oh, man. That's so those kids are so lucky and, you know, good for them. And and Alice and I always wanna respond and say, like, no. You don't get it. Like, We're the ones that have been blessed more than them because we've learned so much that we just otherwise would not have been, not have known. Mhmm. Things about special needs, things about trauma, things about mental health, things about race. We have a we have a mixed race family. So We -- Sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

encountered things that otherwise we never would have had to -- Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

to do. And The result you you just feel so thankful for that decision. Well, I

 

Speaker 0

 

mean, you know, both things can be true. The kids are are better off because of the decision you and Alice made, but also you've benefited as well. So, yeah, I I don't think it's possible for anyone on the outside to fully get it, but That's a I mean, that's a that's awesome that you're able to look back and and see the blessing that was in that adversity really, really, for for everyone involved. So and now just jumping back to the business, how does your business look at at this period of time?

 

Speaker 2

 

So we, you know, we continue to grow. We've been on a steady growth trajectory. You know?

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

For the past fifteen years or so. And, it'll probably not that long after we adopted our kids, that we we moved into design. And we started doing interior design in house. Okay. Yep. Which some of the things that as we grew, they came out of a frustration out of

 

Speaker 0

 

-- Mhmm. --

 

Speaker 2

 

just similar to even starting Smith House, we can do this better. Like, the the service is not great. And so

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

there was a lot of frustration with kind of the traditional design bid build model where you design plans, you send it up for bid, then you pick a contractor and you build it. But what happens so often is that the cost come back because the architect's not really an authority on the cost. So cost come back way over budget, and it you you're spinning everyone's wheels. Meanwhile, all the clients fell in love with this beautiful design that

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

that can't be built. And so we started design just out of our frustration of, like, there's a better way. You know? Let's let's speak authoritatively both on the build and the construction side of things and on the design side of things. Unless Mary those two things, And -- Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

let's just make it simpler for people in in more prisons though. Got it.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. So it sounds like I I know there were there have been ups and downs in those fifteen years for on the business side. But in general, if you looked at the last fifteen years, It just there's been a lot of lot of growth in your in your business. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a It's been a ride. I think yeah. It's been a ride. I think, you know, we're big on we're big on the team. We're big on our culture. Yeah. I think one of the things early on that got it through those tough periods with just a high just levity, just laughing at things. Sure. And because of that, one of our kinda core values is will ferrell,

 

Speaker 0

 

That's amazing. It like, you're dead serious. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Dead serious. That's just wow. We we like to work hard but have fun, you know, journey.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Well, that's one of the things and it actually gets to one of the the things I I notice about your business from the app from the outside, and it clearly with the fostering and adoption You've shown that you're you and your wife are not just focused on making money, but you're also focused on serving others. But looking at your business from the outside, one of the things that I've seen that makes you stand out is just some of the service that you've been able to provide to people and organizations through your business directly. Can you speak to that? You know, How do you what does that look like? Why do you do that? Why do you why do you take on those projects? And I I imagine it gets to the culture of your business. So give us a little more context there.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So I'm a just by nature, a competitive person, you know, you and I -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

played played lacrosse together. I, I played lacrosse in college.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yep. With my brother at Penn State as her --

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep. -- fun games to watch. Your listeners should know because they probably don't realize, but in some circles, You were called the legend. So we're gonna have to play on the Yeah. We're gonna have to work

 

Speaker 0

 

that into the the the title of this episode or at least, the show notes or something. The legend.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Call the legend, and it's not about the guest speaker at all. It's about me.

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, I think Dave, you are the one that keep keeping that one alive. So I'll send you I'll send you some more money to keep that going. So but Thank you. I'm just kidding. But yeah. So speak to, you know, what does that look like? Why do you why do you, how do you do volunteer work, or what does that look like from the company standpoint?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So and, yeah, as I was saying, I just kind of a competitive person. And the first couple years of the business, I mean, honestly, my fault was I wanna be the best, and I wanna be the best in the Baltimore, and I wanna take this guy down, and I wanna take them down, and

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Then I that has changed over the years. And I remember I didn't coin the phrase, but I remember sitting, listening to someone speak that several years ago, and the another light bulb moment, and, you know, like, that's it. That that's what who we are and what we're headed for. But essentially, it the comment was, you know, we we we don't we don't need as many people that are interested in being the best in in something. We need more people that are interested in being the best for something. And so what I take from that is I don't really care about being the best in Baltimore. I'm more interested in us being the best for Baltimore. Mhmm. That's great. So what that means to me is that in even the you know, just borrow a phrase from from your podcast is is looking for ways to you know, be other focused and create move people toward abundance. Again, like, whether it's my staff or whomever, like, in my part of their adversity, story or part of their abundance story. Mhmm. And so we we are, you know, we have a high you know, priority on just the community. And, we wanna we wanna make an impact in Baltimore because there's just so much work to be done. And when so what are what are

 

Speaker 0

 

some of the I'm sorry. What what are some of the projects to your groups you've gotten involved with?

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, so much of it in the past has been reactive where people will reach out and say, hey. Do you wanna be a sponsor? Do you wanna don't, you know, And our we call the building Better Baltimore campaign that we it's new. I mean, we're developing it this year It's a -- Okay.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

it's a it's a proactive way we wanna form relationships with different organizations.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

And you know, just slowly feel like we're making an impact and we're doing more than just responding to the calls that come in to the office. So a a quick, for instance, would be last week. We had safe alternatives. Van Morris runs that organization and it's it's all about providing, you know, kids that maybe don't have that those opportunities. Mhmm. So if you're late that I had growing up, with information and kind of a way in, to different companies for a career that are coming out of high school. And so we had a, you know, fun day at our office and we had some practical you know, tips and tricks on how to do things, drywall framing. And then we talked about, you know, what design is like what the build is like, Latisha from our team talked about, hey, what's a good resume look like, you know, from an HR perspective? So that I guess that's kind of an example, but more than -- Yeah. -- even, you know, Yeah. So it's

 

Speaker 0

 

really good. I get one of the things that comes to mind, you know, you get I guess speaking to, like, kind of entrepreneurship and we're we're gonna move toward wrapping up, I've got some rapid fire questions as we kind of land the plane a little bit, but The, you know, capitalism slash entrepreneurship, to me, This is, you know, my my view is I see it as a great thing. I mean, granted anything can do an extreme is not good. But but because you've been focused on building this company and being the best, you've now actually have much bigger platform and more resources to be able to make a bigger impact. So, you know, there's this sort of, not that Dave Smith's here counting all his pennies, and and it's all about your net worth, but I guess what would you say to somebody who's kind of anti entrepreneur, anti small business or anti capitalism, you know, with regard to them being all greedy and and versus look look at look at your company. You're doing you're forced for good. So How do you view that as far as just, you know, being focused on making money, making a profit versus serving kids in inner city Baltimore, how do you do you put that in? How do you frame that?

 

Speaker 2

 

That's a great question. You know, it's it's tough because on the one hand, lots of times in my experience, when I meet maybe a fellow business owner or something, and they're just high on drive. They're just off the charts.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

Sometimes that makes me a little nervous. Because I know but only because I know myself. And at times when I've been so high on that drive, can

 

Speaker 0

 

-- Mhmm. --

 

Speaker 2

 

I can tend to focus more on myself.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

And and what I'm doing and my goals and my my my Yeah. Jim Colin, you know, the author, good to great, whatever. Yep. He has an analogy that I we talk about it Smith house a lot, but it's called window and mirror maturity.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

Which I think helpful when for me, when thinking stuff like this, but window and mirror maturity, it's, you know, it's a spectrum. Like, our how mature are you? And on the healthy end of the spectrum, if you're very mature, You have high window mirror maturity, but what that means is all about how how you look at your own success and how you handle criticism. So am I likely to point out the window to factors outside myself

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

for my success? Or am I likely to point in the mirror and say it was all about me. Mhmm. All about my hard work. Mhmm. And and you do the same with criticism. When somebody criticizes you, are you likely to point out the window and blame other circumstances, or are you likely to, you know, own it in the mirror?

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And so I I think that it I think there's probably examples of of great examples of, you know, capitalism and and companies doing awesome things. And I think that, like, anything to your point, to an extreme thing you gather watch out for. Right.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. Yeah. I just think you have people on both extremes where you've got some people who say, well, money doesn't matter, you know, it's, you know, I've got everything I need or or or, you know, that's greed, and I'm not gonna feed into that. And To me, that's somebody who's maybe not making the impact they should be because they're not growing, creating, you know, vert you know, and so that there's excuses on either side, you know, then the other side is obviously just, like you said, I'll totally focus on your own business and your own growth and not not serving others. But, it's, I guess, to me money and capitalism and, you know, business It's kinda like the the internet. It's it's it's not necessarily good or bad, but it's a it's very can be used for good or bad, and it's it's not something to ignore. It's something to own and, It's a very important thing that we need to steward and, use for good. So I'll get off my my soapbox, but,

 

Speaker 2

 

totally agree. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

So as far as kind of the more recent, like, who what is your because I I some rapid fire questions right after this. But who who is your ideal client? Who who do you look to serve in the Baltimore, Greater Baltimore area? You know, speak a little bit more about your business. I can say that we've worked with you guys for years. And if we were disappointed, we wouldn't keep coming back You've added a ton of value to multiple houses of ours and not just the houses, but our family. So you and your team have done a phenomenal job with, several big projects for us. And I know you've you've done so much other good in the in the community. But who do you serve as far as your your business and, what's your client, your your the avatar of your client look like?

 

Speaker 2

 

Uh-huh. Yeah. So, you know, I think on on the one hand, again, we're all things home. So we do a hand we'll have handyman projects. We'll do a large project in terms of project type in terms of type of client. You know, we we are in in more of a higher end kinda luxury market, for our our kind of sweet spot project. And And one of the reasons that is kind of where we find our niche is because we spend a lot of time focused on the experience of the client going through it. And -- Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

--

 

Speaker 2

 

and the management of it and making sure things are buttoned up. And and so there's cost to that. And so Sure. There's only certain, you know, demographic that can certainly, you know, make that investment. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Makes sense. Got it. Awesome. And and so very quickly, this is almost not gonna do this justice, but I know you you mentioned before we hit record. You've had a lot of kind of ups and downs with your own spiritual growth, and we could have a whole episode just on this. But looking back, everything we've talked about, it's, again, not really fair here, but How would you frame your own kind of spiritual growth with regard to your family experience and and your business experience would you say to the listener out there, about that topic?

 

Speaker 2

 

The the at your point will It could be a a follow-up, but,

 

Speaker 0

 

Episode two, we can dive into this one more.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. I I think what I found is just just as I was thinking about our conversation leading up to it. What I find interesting about a spiritual topic in my life is that oftentimes I tend to think of adversity to abundance in a linear fashion,

 

Speaker 0

 

you

 

Speaker 2

 

know, particularly financial or something. And that's not, in my experience, always the case, then, and particularly in spiritual life now of of just kind of over the past several years. You know, coming to a place where I I felt there's some parts of my tradition that I don't wanna hold on to anymore. And the adversity that came from that is is deep and really complicated because then I became kind of an outsider from those family and friends that were a part of that tradition, still. And I was the one, ma'am, the one kind of that's that's the lost kind of thing. And, at the same time, such a really cool level of abundance and just freedom and, did I've never quite experienced in the same way? Yeah. And so marrying the two of them is really interesting and and certainly a deep topic. But, yeah,

 

Speaker 0

 

I'll have to bring it back.

 

Speaker 2

 

We briefly touched on that. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Interesting. But that's I mean, hey, kudos to you for doing that deep work instead of just, accepting everything as is. But alright. So rapid fire questions. These are gonna have to be real quick, and then we'll we'll get out of here. Are you ready?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep.

 

Speaker 0

 

What is one thing that people misunderstand about you, Dave?

 

Speaker 2

 

I tend to come across the the total goof. And sometimes people can misunderstand me for probably not thinking three things as much as I really do. I mean,

 

Speaker 0

 

will Farrell is one of your company tenants, so I don't know. Maybe maybe you can't blame them. But anyway,

 

Speaker 2

 

I don't have totally valid

 

Speaker 0

 

yet. If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would it be?

 

Speaker 2

 

Poof. Probably the coach comment we talked about earlier of Really making that a priority.

 

Speaker 0

 

Love it. If you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would it be?

 

Speaker 2

 

You should have sent these ahead of time. Nope.

 

Speaker 0

 

This is the fun part.

 

Speaker 2

 

Maybe that's the point. Gosh.

 

Speaker 0

 

It can be the legend. That's fine. It can they can still be alive. It could be me. I'm

 

Speaker 2

 

just I'm gonna say you. Alright.

 

Speaker 0

 

I was kidding, but if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, Dave, what would you do with it? Not for your company?

 

Speaker 2

 

No strings attached.

 

Speaker 0

 

No strings attached. Here's You don't even know who it came from.

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, listen. You don't have to do that for having this big gap. But, I would we've I'd I'd probably we've a dream is to have a beach house over Hobeth. I'd probably Nice. Accelerate that. And I'd probably want to if it's just a gift out of nowhere, I'd hey. Let's let's divvy it up, you know, with the staff or who am I, you know? Nice. Let's let's share the wealth a little bit.

 

Speaker 0

 

Love it. What is one one major challenge that you're what's one of the bigger challenges you're facing in your business right now?

 

Speaker 2

 

Scaling as comfortably as possible.

 

Speaker 0

 

We've

 

Speaker 2

 

grown from the first several years of the business my focus has been our craft or our product or service, and it's shifting a little bit more to, like, training. As we get bigger of just being more and more passionate and focused on our training, our systems, and and making sure that that's being recreated, even if I'm not necessarily on the front line. Yeah. And Got it. So

 

Speaker 0

 

Makes sense. What is a a book or two that you can recommend for our, audience?

 

Speaker 2

 

I've always loved the Go giver.

 

Speaker 0

 

That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. What is one question that you wish I'd asked that I haven't asked?

 

Speaker 2

 

How much do you bench press? No.

 

Speaker 0

 

How much do you bench press Dave and why is it one thirty five?

 

Speaker 2

 

Just kidding. You say thirty five or one thirty? One one. I gave

 

Speaker 0

 

you the one there.

 

Speaker 2

 

Thank you. Questions you didn't ask me.

 

Speaker 0

 

Anything you wanted to

 

Speaker 2

 

talk about? Yeah. No. I don't Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Awesome. So this has been great Dave. I really appreciate you being vulnerable on in many parts of your story. And, it's a very different episode than we've had before. So this this is gonna be fantastic for the listener for sure. So, Speaking of the listener, where can where can they, find you online, where can they research your company?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yes. Smith house dot com with one h, is our website.

 

Speaker 0

 

Fantastic. You don't wanna give out your cell phone number? I'm just kidding.

 

Speaker 2

 

I wouldn't

 

Speaker 0

 

if I were you. Yeah. There you go. Awesome. Well, Dave Smith of Smith House, Any other words of wisdom before we we head out of here?

 

Speaker 2

 

I know. I I really appreciate you every day, I I hope that I'm self conscious about how I sound. I tend to sound nasally and squeaky. Hopefully you can edit the video or whatever, somehow with that.

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, I've got a little getting over a little bit of a cold. So I think, you know, I'm probably gonna sound worse than you do, but thanks a lot for spending your time with us, Dave. Really appreciate it. This has been awesome. And to the listener out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care.

 

Speaker 3

 

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Speaker 1

 

Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. Your time. If you like the show, please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners. One entrepreneur at a time, we can change the world. See you next time