Mortgage Notes vs. Land Investing: Two Heavyweights Debate the Best Strategy with Chris Seveney & Mark Podolsky

00:00:00
This episode was a ton of fun to record, and you're gonna have a ton of fun listening to it. We have on Chris 70 and Mark Podolsky, two powerhouses in the mortgage node investing space and land investing space. And these two guys debate on this episode the merits of mortgage note investing versus land investing. Now, there is some crossover in this space, and that's why a lot of people and a lot of newer investors, real estate investors, have an ongoing question. Which which of these two asset classes should I get into?

00:00:36
What are the pros and cons of each? That's what we're going to dive into today. And there are some, there are some surprises, for sure. Just want to point out, both of these gentlemen have been on our from adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast show. Previously, Chris was on episode three, I believe it was.

00:00:55
And his was entitled. His episode was called from financial, marital, and health struggles to real estate and node investing success with Chris Seveney. And then Mark Podolsky was on a little bit after Chris. And his episode is entitled how financial collapse allowed Mark Padolsky to create a healthy view of self worth and the game of making money. These titles are a little too long, but man, these guys.

00:01:24
So if you want to dive into their past and be inspired by their adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast stories, those are the two episodes to listen to. But if you want to know more about the pros and cons to mortgage note investing and the pros and cons to land investing, this episode is the one you want to listen to.

00:01:45
Welcome to from adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together.

00:02:23
Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the from Adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and this is going to be a lot of fun today. Today we have a debate between Chris Seveney and Mark Podolsky. We are going to be debating the merits of land investing versus mortgage note investing. Chris, how are you doing today?

00:02:45
I'm doing wonderful. How are you doing, Jamie? This is, this is going to be fun. I'm doing great. I, as a friend of mine says, the sun is shining, birds are chirping, although that's not true.

00:02:56
So I'm doing well. Mark Podolsky. How are you doing today, sir?

00:03:08
How'd you sleep last night?

00:03:17
You do. I've heard that about you.

00:03:21
Right? That's. I mean, on one hand, does that mean you're not nervous about this debate? I don't know, but maybe you just, you knew you needed rest for this debate, so you went to bed early.

00:03:36
This is going to be exciting. So both Chris and Mark, for the listener out there, both Chris and Mark are previous guests on my show, so I would highly recommend you go check out those episodes. Um, definitely worth listening to, but in case for some reason the listener does not go back and listen to those two episodes. Chris, can you give us a 1 minute overview of your background, particularly how it pertains and relates to mortgage note investing? Be doing anything in 1 minute, Jamie.

00:04:05
Thinking is going to be intense, but yeah. So I've been in real estate my entire adult career, which if you ask my wife, has been about three days. But really it boils back to my twenties and thirties, where I was spending 60 hours a week in construction management for a large firm. While that allowed me to build some really cool projects, it didn't give me much else in life. So when I hit my thirties and started having children, noticed I needed to change my tune and became much more entrepreneurial.

00:04:34
So in 2016, I started my real estate portfolio and stumbled upon node investing and love at first sight. Being an engineer, numbers problem solving was my dream. Spreadsheets for life. My portfolio kept growing and interest in investing continued where I had people wanting to invest with me and started launching a fund and then several funds later. Next thing I know, today I run a regulation a plus fund with accredited, non accredited investors where we've raised about 25 million over the last two years and have bought about 600 plus notes overall and currently have about 150 in our fund, which also has about 600 investors.

00:05:19
Well done, sir. Might have been over 60 seconds, but that was, I was just thinking like. You'D have a little timer on the screen or something that counts down, like with the red flashing when you're at a conference and the little light starts blinking to tell you to shut the. Hell up when we get started. For the actual debate, I will have a timer here.

00:05:35
But Mark, 1 minute for your background and how it relates to land and how did you get into land investing and how have you benefited? How has it brought your life? From Adversity to Abundance Podcast shot across the bow.

00:06:23
It.

00:07:09
Well done. Well done. I forgot to grab a towel so I can throw it in because you tapping out. Tapping out yeah.

00:07:19
All right, what we're going to do now, we're going to actually switch and Mark's going to go first. We're going to go with five minutes of opening statements for Mark and we're going to go into an explanation of what land investing is. And then if you could hit on some advantages and opportunities that are currently in the land space, Mark. And then maybe a success story or some personal experience that you've had. And I'm going to start the five minutes right now.

00:07:45
You ready? All right, let's go.

00:08:10
Virginia. I do own land in Arizona, by the way.

00:09:53
It.

00:11:25
90 seconds. 90 seconds.

00:12:40
Wow. That is right on five minute, Mark, you had about 10 seconds to spare. I'm just ready to, like, end. Can I go home now? I'm not even part of the debate and I feel the same way.

00:12:59
Mark, where's the link to your training today?

00:13:06
All right, Chris. Yes. Ready? I'm ready. Explanation of mortgage note investing and then advantages and opportunities in the mortgage note investing space and then maybe a success story or personal experience.

00:13:20
You ready? I am ready. You have five minutes. You are on the clock. Thank you.

00:13:25
So mortgage note investing is, most people actually never heard of it, but everyone is always involved in it because when you buy a house, most people finance it. And after you finance it with the lender, many people get a letter in the mail that says, now send your payments to this person. When that happens, your mortgage has just been sold. And residential mortgage, no investing is about a $16 trillion industry. Give you the size of this industry.

00:13:54
And what we do is you're buying the loans on the secondary Market. So lenders who originate will turn around and sell loans on that secondary Market. And we like to purchase those when they're in default or when borrowers are behind in their payments. We all probably know somebody who's missed a mortgage payment. Now, contrary to popular belief, most people have it set in their mind that, oh, my God, if I miss a payment, the sheriff's going to come kicking in my door and rip me out of my house and I'll be foreclosed upon in 30 days.

00:14:29
Our average default on our loans is about three years. To give you an idea of how long people have been behind on those mortgages, and we purchase them at a discount from banks, private parties, hedge funds, and by purchasing it at a discount, it allows us to focus our strategy, assessing the risk on each note and the return by factoring in what we call the three P's, the property. And like Mark, we do the same due diligence that Mark did. So thanks Mark. Saved me a minute from repeating all that due diligence.

00:15:03
Um, you know, we'll also, you know, the title reports, um, you know, taxes are owed. We want to make sure those are all paid well. Look at the person. You know, we've seen people who have a 17 page rap sheet or they file bankruptcy six times. Not something we want to deal with now, because our goal is to keep these people in their property and work with them, to keep them in their home and create passive income.

00:15:26
And last is we look at people's predicament. Most people just don't wake up one day and say, oh, I'm not going to pay my mortgage today. People, death, divorce, job loss, medical, now people go through hardships all the time. And 60% of Americans live, unfortunately, paycheck to paycheck. And with what everything costs today, it's probably even higher.

00:15:50
So we'll buy a mortgage from a lender, and I'll give an example of $100,000 loan. We purchase it for $60,000 and the person's living in the house. And we like to focus on loans that are like ten years old, because what has happened in the last ten years, property values have appreciated significantly while they paid down their mortgage a little bit. So we like properties that have equity, because the two ways you can exit a mortgage is either through the borrower or through the property, which through the borrower is we're trying to get them on a revised payment plan. And by getting so they might be $15,000 behind a prior lender is just going to say, give me $15,000 or else we'll say, give me $5,000 and start making your payments again.

00:16:43
And we'll modify the loan and then we'll sell that not in, unfortunately 30 days like Mark can do, but in eight to twelve months. And if we bought it at $0.60 on the dollar, we can turn around and sell it at $0.80 on the dollar, while also doing the good of keeping somebody in their home and focusing on that strategy. There are times when unfortunately we have to foreclose on a borrower and then we have that real estate that we still have that asset that is still in demand that somebody can look and turn around and sell about 1 minute. Okay. Some of the advantages are requirement at a discount.

00:17:22
We can buy on the secondary Market where we're not originating a loan today that's a $300,000 house and a 270 mortgage mortgage. Our $100,000 mortgages today are probably worth 300,000. So we look at is a lower risk. There's always risk in investing with that significant equity. And also, no, I'll use it that people love real estate.

00:17:47
If you can show somebody a picture of a house like, ooh, I own the loan on this, or drive through any city who owns the tallest building in that city, it's a bank. And at the end of the day, Mark's a bank. I'm a bank. It's just how we become the bank. But both at the end, we are the bank.

00:18:10
Man. 15 seconds left. You guys both ended right at 15 seconds left. That's amazing. Yes.

00:18:16
So both of you can become the bank. Mark, you're on mute. You may know that. And.

00:18:26
Absolutely. Wait a minute. We're not supposed to be friends here. This is. We're not supposed to get along on this during this debate.

00:18:36
That was. That was really good. All right, so round two. Round two is going to be rebuttal and counter arguments. So Mark has five minutes to respond to Chris's points, and you're going to present counterarguments.

00:18:49
Specifically, Mark, you're going to address any misconceptions or weaknesses that you see pertaining to mortgage note investing and then highlights strengths of land investing when compared to those downsides of mortgage note investing. Questions?

00:19:11
All right, five minutes, sir. Here we go. You're on the clock.

00:19:18
It short term rentals.

00:21:12
Seven. E investments.com or labradorlending.com. Pick your pickup.

00:21:31
Okay, so 1 minute? 1 minute. Yeah.

00:23:48
All right. Bitcoin, meme stocks. You know, I'll save my summary or, you know, clarification for what after Chris goes, because I do think there were a couple of things you highlighted that that are, we can point to about land investing, um, that are not found in mortgage note investing. But I don't want to step on Chris's toes. Chris, you are going to have five minutes to do a rebuttal and counter argument.

00:24:19
You're going to address any misconceptions that there are out there about land investing and highlight strengths that mortgage note investing has when compared to land investing. You ready? Yep. All right, let's do it. You're on the clock.

00:24:35
I think some of the misconceptions about land investing is that, you know, you have to spend a lot of money upfront to find these properties and parcels, which is not truly the case. If you get a system in place like Mark has, it can be done very efficient and effective. Another misconception I think a lot of people have about the land is the quality of the borrower in regards to, oh, its somebody whos just doesnt have the money or isnt qualified that just wants to have it. Theres a lot of high net worth people who are just looking to buy land because land is something that we dont create more of unless youre in a coastal area where to get rid of some and add in some. And also the other aspect that I saw, a really interesting stat that blew my mind was on that seller financing component that Mark does.

00:25:31
What land? The average down payments, like 25 or 30%. I mean, its pretty substantial, where a lot of times people will sometimes Market it as, oh, ill sell it for zero down and so forth. They may be getting it at a very low price and getting that type of deal, but when they go to sell it, theyre very sophisticated and understanding how to structure that. Some of the other aspects with notes and some of the pros, that some people view this as a con, but I also view it as a pro.

00:26:10
As Mark mentioned, weve got Respa, CFPB, consumer protection. You have all of this rules in place. The good thing about that though, is it gets out. All the riff raff or the majority of it. There's still some, we know some, but it gets out.

00:26:26
So it does sometimes limit the competition for people who want to get involved because they're too intimidated. The other aspect of notes, especially us, where we like to buy non performing, is it is a conflict oriented business. And if you try and work with people, but also you have to understand it's a business and it's conflict oriented. I came from that background. So for me to call an attorney and say, hey, we got to do this, let's send a demand letter, let's get the process rolling.

00:26:58
Meanwhile, we want to work with them, but bring them to the table. But sometimes you got to push or pull a borrower, unfortunately, to get them to come play, that intimidates people. I know somebody right now who's been actually a land note that went non performing that I'm like, it's in Texas. File the foreclosure on the guy. Just get it over with.

00:27:19
Well, he's been telling me for four months that he's going to pay me this and I'm like, start the process. At least you can always push that date. So, um, now, one of the things that I'll mention, you know, again, lan versus notes, where it's similar, but I think honestly, lan has the advantage is when Mark talks about the value now its very difficult to get value of land. Its very difficult to get a value of a property because we dont get to see the inside of the house. We cant go as a lender.

00:27:52
I dont know any lender that will come knock will allow you to knock on the door and say, hey, can I come look at the inside of your house?

00:27:59
We dont know what these houses look like. Ive had deals where, I mean, we could be on episodes of hoarders and the loan would have made more money being on hoarders from the tv rights than it would have been from the amount of money that we spent. $12,000 to pick up all the trash out of these properties. I will refute one point Mark, though. I bet you my land, I have land in Florida and Arizona that probably both have snakes.

00:28:25
So they dont have rodents, but they have snakes, which im not sure which ones were.

00:28:32
Yeah, I'm going to digress and take a minute. I know a guy who breeds exotic snakes and gets like 50 to 100 grand per snake, and this guy's rolling in seven figures a year by having snakes breed in his basement. And you want to talk passive. That's all this guy does. And I'm sitting here buying notes and dealing borrowers and he's sitting next to me at a table and I'm like, are you serious?

00:28:58
We'll have to have him on the next episode. Exactly. One other thing that 30 seconds I'll mention is notes and land. I will say again, back to land is you can get involved in land at a much lower price point. Notes.

00:29:13
A few years ago you could start 1020 thousand. Today that's probably bumped up to $25 to $50,000 entry point, which again, is a positive sometimes because I don't have uneducated people over bidding for stuff or flooding the Market with overbidding on stuff. We still see it. But sometimes you might see that issue areas where it's a lower cost of entry, you might have more competition. Time is up.

00:29:43
All right, well, there's a lot to. A lot to dive into. We've got one round here where we're just going to. It's a little more free flowing. I'm going to ask some questions.

00:29:54
That was really good.

00:29:57
The reality is we know there's pros and cons to both sides. And look, they're both pretty similar. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you guys on is because I do run in the mortgage note space more than the land space. And so from my perspective, I don't know if it's because I've gotten to know Mark more over the last couple of years or what it is. But I've started to see more and more land notes and land investors, and just, it seems to be, you know, more popular.

00:30:27
And so I've come across in mentoring people, people will kind of be at that crossroads of which one of these two should I choose? So, let's start there in the q and a session. First to Chris. If you have a new node investor, we know there's no right or wrong answer here, but new node investor, they come to you and they say, I'm not really sure, should I. Should I get to land or.

00:30:50
I'm sorry, new investor. New real estate investor. They've got a little capital to spend, and they've got a lot of time. Um, should I do mortgage notes or should I do land investing? Great question.

00:31:02
I usually will push people more towards a note in a performing loan. And one of the reasons why is, with the mortgage note, it's okay. There's a property. You know, the property can be there. You can get a little better, probably valuation on it.

00:31:22
One of the concerns I have with some and Mark is, can answer is much better me. But some of the land deals that I've seen people put out there recently have been swamp land, unbuildable. Not, you know, not, you know, doesn't meet zoning requirements. So trying to understand some of that due diligence can be challenging. And for, you know, and if you need to sell a mortgage note, I think, you know, it might be a little bit easier to sell a mortgage note backed by a physical piece of real estate than it is a land note.

00:32:03
But Mark's done 6000 of these. Oh, I know. He can probably provide more insight. This is just kind of my. What goes through my head.

00:32:12
But again, I'm not in that space, so, Mark. Yeah, Mark, let's throw it over to you. Same question. New real estate investor. Got some capital to put to work.

00:32:21
They have lots of time. They're debating the merits of these two and pretend you don't have your own system that. Just pretend you're not biased here. Which direction do you point them into?

00:32:40
Fair. Fair. I'm biased. Well, look, there's. Okay, let's.

00:32:44
Let's forget that. Let's be real. Then there's a.

00:32:55
Yeah.

00:32:59
Yeah, sure.

00:33:11
Right.

00:33:31
Sure.

00:34:00
Right.

00:34:05
Yeah.

00:34:10
Yeah.

00:34:15
Mm hmm. Yeah. Chris. Chris wants to chime in. I just got a joke.

00:34:20
I tell Jamie I'm just a dumb pollock. Mark, um, who does this? Uh, so, you know, Podolsky probably, you know, might be a little polish in there too. But one thing I'll say, I like what you mentioned about like the $500 though, because if you lose $500 it's $500. I would think because people always ask this question like with mortgage note investing and versus land, I would view land investing easier to scale than mortgage note investing for three reasons.

00:34:53
One is the lower cost of entry. The second is your turn ratio. If you can turn these things like you are, I buy it, I get somebody down payment. Even if it took you six months to do that process, the mortgage note life cycle on average is twelve to 18 months. And like you said, it's a higher cost of entry where if I could buy 20 land notes for 1000 apiece versus one mortgage note at 20,000 a, you're reducing your risk.

00:35:24
But also if you could turn those. So I would look at the land side of things from, if somebody's like hey, I want to quit my job in a period of time if they're sophisticated and sharp and understand kind of the metrics and again cut you a check to learn how to do it based on the training that you had, which has had I don't know how many tens of thousands of students, um, I would think the land is something that you can scale up much quicker and get cash in the door faster than mortgage notes. I'm starting to think in six months we're going to have you both back on but you're going to be on the other side. You're talking, talking yourselves into switching sides here. It's funny because I do have, I literally Friday um, so the way I invest in land is kind of backwards, a little bit of I buy defaulted paper thats on land and I usually get that at a significant discount because what Mark just said, just like the borrowers dont want it and youll run my check for 2500, I will basically buy that land note very cheap, go through the foreclosure process, just get it wiped or whatever.

00:36:33
Take ownership. I just took ownership, 25 acres in West Virginia and im sitting there thinking wow, this would be a good one because I know would be a good place for a hunting cabin and I'm like oh, I'll sell our finance to somebody on a hunting cabin and then instead of owning it just sit there and collect that cash flow. I've got three properties in North Carolina, one Arizona, two up in Oregon I think. So I've got like 15 properties so I can't sit here and Disney about properties that are just sitting there. Eventually that I'll probably turn around, look to seller finance.

00:37:08
This is going to be a little bit, this question is going to be a little bit less of a debate question and more just educational to Mark. First, since youve gotten into the land investing space, its a two part question. What has changed in the Marketplace and just the conditions overall? What has changed since you started to now and what do you see changing in, say, the next few years as far as land investing goes? It.

00:38:25
It got it. Great answer, Chris. Same question. What has changed since you've gotten into the mortgage note space and what do you think the future holds? Yeah, first I want to just touch upon what Mark said about like land investors.

00:40:17
Where I was at Node Expo last year, the number of people who were doing land was, there were more people doing land than notes. And im like, oh, wow. But a lot of them were like in Texas. And what theyre doing is buying large parcels, subdividing them, bringing utilities in, and then seller financing where people come in and someone would buy the trailers and, but I mean, theres so, like Mark said, theres so many different aspects of land investing, just like there is so many different aspects of node investing technology. Agree 100% data tree propstream I joked to my wife, I need to get an Oculus quest to use Google Street View where you can put the Oculus on and now use that to turn your head and look at the neighborhood.

00:40:57
Theres an app on there, too. So if anyone is looking to get an Oculus, just blame it on your investing needs it. Not that you want to be a kid and play beat saber or whatever it is. Um, but, you know, technology has definitely changed. I think what's changed, though, the most in the mortgage note space has been the government regulations, uh, that have happened.

00:41:21
We, you know, we raise money from investors and the first thing people ask, oh, is it like 2008? 2008 is like the Internet from 1997 in mortgage note investing where, you know, it was dial up, not much. I mean, so much has changed where there's so much more restrictions and safeguards in place, which again, has been good and it has been bad. It's been good because now you have to be a little bit more honest to be in the space again. There's still always bad players out there, but it does make it more challenging for licensing and some of these other things.

00:41:56
The other major change again we've seen is just like everybody is seen in real estate, is pricing increase supply and demand and less supply, more demand. The government printed $6 trillion that made its way to people and people are sitting on cash. They want to spend that money. So that is caused. Non performing loans.

00:42:20
I was looking at an asset that six years ago, I could buy for $0.35 on the dollar. Today, that asset would sell for 70, double about $0.70 on the dollar. Now, you can still make money, but what it's caused is very similar to what's happened in traditional real estate. Whether you're a landlord or a multifamily guy. You know, the joke has been, you could have been out on a ship in the middle of the ocean for the last four years and made money on the deal because of appreciation.

00:42:49
That's gone. It's all about management. But Mark mentioned earlier, buying it, you gotta buy it, right? And you got to have that education and experience, and the people who don't have that knowledge, you know, who is it Warren Buffett said, you know, the wave goes back or whatever. You see, I forget, whatever.

00:43:09
See who's swimming naked. See you swimming naked. Essentially, you're really starting to see that in every aspect of real estate, including mortgage notes for people who were buying loans that were originating at 3%, borrowers eight months behind, and like, oh, I'm okay paying, you know, $0.70 on a dollar for this. And I'm like, great. You just bought basically 5%.

00:43:30
You're making 5% with a borrower who pays once every three months compared to, I could have had that thing in a CD at 5%. And it's just because they don't understand. The numbers, and it's tough to modify a 3% loan. Right? Yep.

00:43:46
Not a lot of wiggle room there. Um. Awesome. That was really good. So I'm just going to hit on a couple of few points you both made, and then you can talk more about what you have going on today and how that can benefit the listener before we get out of here.

00:44:02
Does that sound good? Sounds good. A couple of things I think were interesting is that several of the things you both highlighted can really be seen as pros or cons.

00:44:17
Low barrier to entry. Um, that can be good, that can be bad, right? We talked about that. I'm not going to beat it to death. But, uh, also the regulations, I mean, that, that can keep people out, which can be hard for the.

00:44:31
The new note investor. They don't know if they need to be licensed in a particular state. Do I have to use a loan servicer? Like what? There's a lot of, like, red tape.

00:44:38
That's scary. But to Chris's point, that keeps out the riff raff a little bit. So, um, and another point I think you both. You touched, Mark mentioned this a couple of times. You're not dealing with the emotional attachment of the borrower, but to Chris's point, that emotional attachment means you can work with the borrower potentially and create a loan modification and then sell that loan for a greater value if you're not exiting through the property.

00:45:02
So it could be good, it could be bad. Right. It kind of highlights the. The upside and strengths of both land investing and mortgage note investing. Um, I'll give you each 30 seconds, and then we'll talk about after that.

00:45:17
We'll talk about what you have going on today. Mark, final thoughts. Land investing versus mortgage note investing.

00:45:45
It all right. Yeah. So I gave you some extra time. I'll give you 60 seconds. Chris, go ahead.

00:46:34
Yeah. At the end of the day, we're both the bank. It's really. We're both the bank now. We both don't have debt.

00:46:42
We are the debt. We're both building cash flow businesses that are building wealth over time. It's not a get rich quick scheme. You're building those monthly payments now. It really boils down to, what's your ego?

00:46:57
Do you want to show people a piece of dirt, or do you want to show them this beautiful $15 million property that I have in Miami that has, you know, basically the swimming pool, a tub made of one piece of stone that was carved out. They could say, oh, I was affiliated with this. No. Just like my back days when I was in construction management. Ooh, look at that 24 story building.

00:47:18
I built that. That building's always going to be there. That house is always going to be there. So there's no right or wrong answer. At the end of the day, we're really both doing the same thing.

00:47:29
Um, for me, it's more of an ego thing, honestly, of, I like to look at the piece of property because I think that's sexier. And as a civil engineer, I do love dirt. I learned my degree was dirt, and water is mud. So I was one of the thesis that we had to finish. But again, both of them really are the same business plan.

00:47:49
It's just slightly different asset class, and both of them can lead to long term wealth. Absolutely. No, you're absolutely correct. There are so many strengths to both mortgage note investing and land investing. And for the listener, that's why I wanted to have these two guys on, because you two are two of the most successful people in these two spaces, or even this larger space of real estate investing.

00:48:15
So thank you both for coming on. Mark, why don't you tell the listener what you have going on today and how that can benefit them. It.

00:49:10
Yeah, yeah, I'll come back if you have me on. What's your ideal client? Avatar. What does that person look like?

00:50:03
And get that nice sleep like Mark had last night. All right, Chris, uh, what do you have going on with your company and your fund? And, uh, who's your ideal, uh, client that you want to serve? Yeah, so we continue to, you know, raise money for our. Our fund, which, uh, is open to both accredited and non accredited investors.

00:50:25
Uh, one of the interesting things I'll mention about our fund that does make it unique is investors get a 1099 dividend, not 1099 interest. So good tax bonus there for them. And we structured it with a minimum investment. It's only $5,000, and we really target focus. You know, I'm a big acronyms person now.

00:50:48
Goats Henrys, which a goat is getting old and tired. So that landlord who's like, I don't want to do this anymore, is my wife says, we go on vacation, we go to a water park. I want the lazy river. That's what most people want nowadays, especially what was going on in the Markets. We want the lazy river.

00:51:04
Then the other is the Henry's high earning, not rich yet. They don't qualify for accredited, but they have some money sitting on the sidelines, and they want to invest in an institutional type product like mortgage notes, but they've been left out because you have to be accredited. You need $100,000 minimum, which to anybody, even my, you know, myself, you Mark, $100,000 to anyone's a lot of money to give somebody, you know, the first time, you know, as you're trying to start investing. So we want to really focus on that individual. And a lot of my team are millennials who, you know, are trying to buy a home or just trying to get passive income, because 401k, you know, that 40 40 40 rule that I like to say is 40 hours a week for 40 years for 40% of your income is not going to cut it.

00:51:51
And people have to invest and look at passive income as a means to allow the experts to work with them to let you live the lifestyle you want. And the one thing that I know Markets a big proponent of, there's one thing nobody can buy, and that is time. We can't buy more time. So you got to take advantage of all your time that you have. So good, man.

00:52:19
Absolutely. I will release the licensing rights for. The small fee of, of Mark art. Mark's otter already has. Exactly.

00:52:32
That's right. I love it. I actually have, I joke because I actually have a, you know, most people would joke because it's like, oh, a timeshare. Why'd you buy? I have a timeshare that we used a lot and it's actually done very well for us.

00:52:48
And we're like, we don't have much time to use it anymore. So I looked to sell it and it's on an island. And basically I told the person like, hey, I'll sell or finance this thing. And all of a sudden you say seller finance to that. You get four weeks out a year and stuff.

00:53:02
So you get a month, and all of a sudden people are like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, because they don't have to come up with that large payment. You sell or finance that thing to them. And most people, again, don't understand or have done seller finance. And they're like, oh, the amount of people who have inquired, now that I put, when I said seller finance has gone from one to probably 15 x.

00:53:24
So many creative things you can do in this, in this space, and it's fantastic. Um, Chris, did you mention where people, uh, can find you online or how they can contact you? Yeah, they can go to our website, seven e investments.com. That's the number seven letter e, like behind me if people are watching on video. Investments.com dot.

00:53:43
Mark, I think you mentioned your website. Any, any other contact info you want to plug.

00:53:52
Fantastic, Chris. Mark, this has been really, really fun. I've enjoyed it. Hopefully you did as well. And I know the listener will as well.

00:54:00
This has been really, really good. Like we said, there's pros and cons to everything. It really depends on your situation. The one thing I'll say is just because there is a low barrier to entry in any particular asset class or investment strategy doesn't mean you should just jump in with, you know, head first. You know, talk to Chris, talk to Mark, talk to other experts in these spaces, understand what you're getting into.

00:54:26
But absolutely both of these, these investment strategies can take you eventually in the long term from adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast. Um, and speaking of that, check out our website, adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast. The number two adversity to From Adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast Podcast. And like Chris said, we can't make any more time. And we appreciate you spending your, your time with us because that is your most valuable resource.

00:54:51
Thanks, everyone. Take care.

00:54:59
Thank you for joining us on from adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at www. Dot Adversity twoFrom Adversity to From Adversity to Abundance Podcast Podcast. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation together.

00:55:22
Let's turn adversity into From Adversity to Abundance Podcast. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.