From Spartan to Self-Compassion: Counselor John Windsor’s Journey of Self-Discovery, Entrepreneurship, and Service

This episode is a little bit close to home. We get to hear from my brother, John Windsor, John is a licensed therapist. He runs j w counseling. Which is a side gig for him. It's a side hustle that he started last year, and we get to talk about the business angle a little bit toward the end of the episode.

But John works full time as a therapist as well for Catholic Charities, and he's got a fascinating story. He's dealt with some personal trauma as we all have, and he's also dealt with some very serious, family disruption, and I think that's largely what was the impetus behind him wanting to change career paths and get into therapy. We focus on John's shift in how he views himself with a lot more self compassion. Used to he used to take more of a, stoic or spartan mentality or approach, and now he really is able to see himself with a lot more compassion, but still is an action taker and is all about growth and serving others. And in today's world, man, we have a mental health crisis on her hands.

You know, III just really love John's approach where it's it's... He's kind of an everyday guy if you will, who came from team sports was a always had a lot of pressure on him as the oldest sibling to achieve and to perform. And but he always viewed himself as less than less than his stature, less than in, his reading capabilities. And, we talk about how he's been able to overcome that and how he works with clients to be able to shift their mindset, specifically, around self compassion, but still having that element of pushing yourself to achieve and to be able to make a positive impact on others. We get into, we talk about...

III challenge them a little bit, you know, talking about the ego and and, Michael Jordan, and you'll have to wait for for those details, but he had a fantastic answer to that question. But if you're looking for, of high quality individual therapist, group therapist, family therapist, reach out to John. He's a fantastic human being. Welcome to from adversity to abundance. The Go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness.

Each week join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lands of mental fitness where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to abundance podcast. I'm am your host, Jamie Bat, and I'm pumped today to have with us, John Windsor of J w counseling.

John, how are you doing? I'm doing really well. Very excited to be here, Jamie. Thank you. Awesome.

In the interest of full disclosure, John and I know each other, quite well. John is my brother law, and not my youngest brother law, but married to my youngest sister. And so I'm gonna... At times pretend, I don't know John for the listener out there, And, for the listener, John, who are you and what are you up to today? Yeah, Jamie.

Thanks. I'm John Windsor. I'm a licensed professional counselor. So I have a... Counseling practice and also work in the, public sector as well.

Yeah. I've been doing this for 5 years, and I'm excited, but it's been a long journey getting to this point, changing my mindset from the kinda, like, Spartan what I thought was a stoic mindset to now more of a set of compassionate understanding, and empowering mindset. That's that's kind how it shifted things. Interesting. And there's a lot that you just...

We could unpack what we won't have time for everything. I'm curious about the what you thought was stoic, you know, versus what is actually stoic or what you think now is stoic. But anyway, let's dive into your background, your backstory, John, again, I know a lot about you, but for the listener, so you are from the Baltimore Maryland area, and, tell us a little bit more about your childhood if you would. Yeah. Sure.

So, yeah, I grew up in Baltimore where, cross is a big big thing, sports were big thing for me growing up. Sports school that there was a lot of pressure to to do the best I could do, which I think is a is a good expectation to I have that that that we'd want to do our best. But growing up. Yeah. The being...

I mean, we can't see it here, but being a smaller guy so sometimes on the athletic field, yeah, That there were certain things that would would get to me about. Being that that having that kinda insecurities and dealing with them, but trying to push myself further. And... So, yeah. I mean, that...

That's where I first... I really gained an idea of my identity with sports school that I was the 10 1 in school and sports that's that's kind of what I feel like It I was known for and and what I pride to myself on. Yeah. It is important. Yeah.

And I can you didn't mention but you are the oldest of 3 children, and I am the oldest in my family as well, so I can relate to, you know, that pressure element that you talked about to, to achieve not that there's not pressure on younger siblings. But I I think there may be an extra element of pressure on that oldest child sometimes to perform and be a leader set the tone for the rest of the kids and and the siblings and I had that, you know, whether intentional or not for my parents, it it was a lot of pressure to perform and achieve, and and I I also had a lot of lessons learned and and team sports, were huge part of my upbringing as well. So I can relate to a lot of lot of what you said. So in your... It sounds like your identity really is what we're getting out here.

Your identity was being formed in that sense, through team sports and achievement, and then you said 10 student something like that. Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

In both school and and the yeah, I field there that there was this understanding that from my view, I guess, at the time was that I was a little bit less than, so I need to work harder, which I wanted to work hard and, like you said achieve, and Yeah. We could talk about birth order and and and that kind of thing, and and that that does have a lot of interesting steps to it. But but, yeah. I I realized that 10 is an important part, but it's not all of who I am. Mh.

And the... Yeah. It's... Well, we we can go do it further later. But, yeah, so it's something that I was learning along the way was just how much...

Yeah. Other people putting things on you Mh. Really impacts. Sure. I think that's a key point that we're gonna focus on.

And I I do think you also alluded to the fact that things care certain behavioral characteristics or or personality types can be good or bad. Right? 10 is kinda really viewed as a good thing. Right? Work ethic think, can be great, and you need it's necessary for success and and I mean, honestly, most things in life that are worth anything require a good bit of work.

But it sounds like in your case, maybe that got wrapped up and, like you said, other people's views of you. And then... So dive into that more, and I I know we're gonna skip forward a little bit. And I wanna hear hear about how you decided to become a a therapist and go that route, but before we get there, what do you see as a different now compared to Back then, how do you view yourself differently, now than you did back then. I think back then, there was a lot of...

Understandably, as kids, we we view things as we're almost... Our whole being is the athlete or the the a student or the the theater person, the musician. But really, so now I'd I just view that as part of my life that was really important. I mean, I I love some of the things I learned as an athlete, but the at or as a student and growing up. But, yeah.

It's not all of who I am, and it's always gonna be... Ever... It... It's kinda almost ever changing. The the different roles that we play, the different roles that we choose to play.

So that's... Yeah. That that's kind of Yeah where I was thinking. Makes sense. Okay.

So and and some of the views that others were placing on you, it sounds like you've changed and no longer view yourself through that that lens. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. I mean...

Definitely, and and not it's good too much into. But, yeah, The... I mean, I think what you said before too about being the oldest child. I think there's also an element. I have wonderful parents.

But, yes, so sometimes, I think as the oldest child and as a parent myself now. Mh really... It it's all experiment experimentation, I guess, instead, like, the the first key you're really learning as a parent. So it's been a really good journey being a parent and getting to see it from that perspective. But Yeah.

Yeah. It's designed to do the best I can to... Offer what I can to my son or to my daughter. But Mh. But, yeah, trying not to put too much on them, and trying to let them be more of a guide in in what going on in their life.

Yeah. It it's something that I really try and embody. But I I do love that, you know, I I was given a few things to kinda focus on in my life because it gave me stability. So Yeah. Said it's Jamie.

It's it's that balance of, like, you know, almost always trying to see the middle ground of it because it's, you know, too much of even a good thing is not... It's not a good thing. Right? Absolutely. And I do feel like, in today's day and age.

I'm all forward looking at trauma and and, you know, understanding the impact that trauma has on our present day selves. Part of me feels bad for our parents sometimes because you know, now that you're parent of 2, and I'm a parent of 2, and it's... I think maybe we have inherently a little more empathy than we used to for for parents as well. So it's very easy for us to sit here and say, well, you know, and you weren't saying this, but but the that our parents did a bad job of putting too much pressure on us for achievement, etcetera. And it's like, well, there is no playbook.

And every child's is different it. It's parenting is very difficult. And so yeah. I find it there's a balancing act there of of you know, not trying to blame our parents, certainly some parents are very bad parents out there, but it's it's it's not easy. So okay.

So through sports and, through academics, you were the 10 1 because you were considered less than or at least you saw yourself that way, you mentioned being smaller in stature. And then I know as you progressed through school, there were there were moments where you, realized, you may have been less than or seen yourself as less than academically or as a learner. Can you touch on that Mh for a minute, Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting. I I feel I haven't ever said it out loud too much. But but, yeah. The the the idea of being a reit reader that that was a huge, like, insecurity of mine, and I mean, I don't have a diagnosed learning disability or anything I could say. But, yeah.

It just was a very tough thing growing up, feeling like, I couldn't read aloud in class and and at that time, I was in a kind of a pre high pressure, private school, and they... There's just a lot of emphasis on being really, really good. So like we're saying, I mean, it's could be parents, but it's also society school or whatever the pressures are. So I just knew that I I... You, you know, when I'm getting pulled out in class to go do some extra extra help.

Mh. While it's extra, and it is helpful. It's like, well, I clearly know that the other... You know, 20 not good signs. Not encouraging, Like, you're you're slower than the rest of the kids.

Is what... You know? Yeah. Yeah. Comes with.

And it's interesting. I mean, I I feel like that's a deficit that I know a lot of people face and I know we talked it for a second half. Before this started. But, yeah. I mean, when I was in a group therapy class in at Nyu going through my masters, it it was interesting to see just how some of these things that but happen, you know, when when we're really young 5 6 for me, you know, trying to learn to breathe like, how lasting that belief can stay with us.

Mh. And sharing it in a group setting is a group of soon to be therapist. It was nice to have that empathy. But, yeah, how many people, yeah. Were tier 4 upset just by hearing that and not upset in the sense that they, were upset for me, but I think that they really related that that...

That's what I took that that it was... Mh. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Remember reading a, a book but, gay hendrix and he talks about your upper limit problem. It sounds similar to. It's like a self imposed upper limit, you know, sounds like in some cases, maybe you had that going on. I think we all have that in in certain aspects of our lives. So Okay.

How did you... How and why did you determine that you wanted to be a therapist? Yeah. Sure. So...

Yeah. So so I went from the 10 nasty mindset, and then... The school comes to an end. As we all we all know. And but, yeah, I was such a tough road because I I was doing an economics degree at Saint.

Mary's College, Maryland and then all of a sudden, I realized that my internship, like, Don't know if I wanna... Like, is this what my whole rest of my life's gonna be, and there was just kind of that existential crisis of, like, I don't really like this what I've studied. I'd like some of it, but can I see myself doing it for forever, which I I definitely would stress if as a cognitive distortion that a lot of young people think is, like, what I'm doing now and what I get into is gonna be the thing that I say with forever, which is just for sure? True almost changing. Especially now.

In today's culture, you... It's just not that way anymore. And maybe it used to be. But, yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. Go ahead.

So, yeah, but it's it's ever changing, and so then I took a bike trip and across the country, and it was inspired a lot because of... My own family had some instability that that happened when I was in... What when I was finishing up college, I guess, and someone in the family had a mental health crisis, and it was... It it it was a struggle. So for the family, and then trying to figure out what how I could help.

And really, the bike trip was the the thing that I thought, like, oh, the is a way that I could, tang help, which was, at at the time I was raising money for Johns Hopkins and helping in that way. But the bike trip really was a place where, you know, you talked about adversity, that there were so many times where I was facing physical adversity going up a hill, having mishap. I mean, I still go back to now, like, the the mishap of, you know, a flat tire. You, you know, you're you're rolling around. You're you're rolling through your day, and then something just randomly is there and then Mh.

Yeah. Kinda ruins your day. It seems like for a moment, and that was a big mindset shift for me of, like, do do I wanna be pissed at this random nail that was just in the row where or, Do I wanna, laugh about it, just see it as just a silly opportunity that I can, yeah, to turn into just a way to slow down. Sure. So the bike trip was...

After college and before you went on for your your masters. Is that right? Yeah. So so that's where I was doing a lot of reflection, what I wanted to do, what kind of skills was I was good at. Mh.

Which at, I see myself as a good listener. Mh. What's signed? No. I'm just kidding.

So, yeah. Have you, the the there was there was that, and then also getting him to see the progression of the issues that were going on in my family and how person that really seemed to help kinda well, help guide and navigate things was the counselor, and I I really thought that that was a really this thing. So you... Where did the... Did...

Was the bike trip a a result of seeing the... Your family's, struggles? Or was it sounds like the bike trip itself allowed you a lot of space for reflection and a lot of, I guess, certainty in your path forward, at least for the, at least for the, you know, near future and came out of the bike trip. So I guess what I'm asking is, you know, was was was the bike trip more of the a result? More of the result or or more of the impetus for you to move on to be a therapist.

I I think it was AII now think of things as more of a constellation. Like, there's lots of little reasons why just happening Yeah. The the the device phrase that well. I'll be. I'll call myself out would and the best question I've ever asked.

But it sounds like the bike trip was helped you, was a result, you were raising money through the bike trip. Right? And that was partially because of family member struggles, but then the bike trip also allowed you the space to reflect and kind of give yourself career guidance, if you will. Is that am I off base there? Your...

Yeah, You're you're a hundred percent accurate. I mean, I was definitely looking to figure out what I wanted to do. There was also how I could help my family, and then inherently 8 hours or 10 hours on the bike. And at that time, I'm sure there's just lots of things you could listen to now, but at that time, it was, you know, you're listening to the the breeze or the wind in your years. So there's a lot of time for thinking, and and I know this about mental fitness too, but it's also the place where I grew to greatly appreciate the the power of exercise and and how, you know, exercise was such a crucial part of...

And Probably almost medi too that that you're you're on a bike. You're doing the same thing over and over. You... But but it brings you a lot of... Well, it bring brought me a lot of calm energy to...

Mh. Did not mean that stress response. Yeah. And I've come to appreciate partially through your help. I'll give you some some credit here.

Nature, And just being outside, you know, side know you pushed me to do the, white water rafting about 5 years ago. And, you know, in category 5 rapids in the upper y that was amazing. So just even that 3 hour experience was was really fantastic. But I think with your bike trip, you combined, you know, space, like mental space and nature being outside, struggle diversity. There's an inherent adversity, it's not not easy.

You bike cross the country, and then I know later you did another shorter trip, which was extremely long in in my view. Along with you know, community. You didn't do the bike trip by yourself, along with exercise, and then you're getting sunlight vitamin D. And so... Yeah.

Those are, like, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts about health, physical health, mental health and mental fitness and not to say there's no such thing as, you know, real mental health challenges or or a need for medication or anything. But if you're not doing those things we just listed, you're not even giving yourself a a fighting chance. Now easier said than done if you're suffering from a serious illness. I I understand that. But...

Yeah. I can see why the trip was a monumental, you know, experience for you. So... Okay. Fast forward, you you...

After the trip. Also, I wanna highlight that I love the fact that I don't love that your your family members had any kind of mental health challenges or struggles or or anything like that. But I do interview a lot of people who, you know, their career path was altered because of a personal experience or the experience of... Close family member. So, you know, it's all academic until it comes into your world.

Right? And then it's like, okay. Now this is now you have this purpose, not that you didn't have purpose before, John, but, you know, it's Look, I know they're marriage counselors, marriage coaches who... The whole reason they offer this is because their parents got divorced, and that was, you know, something close to home for them. So I love the fact that there's that human element for you that really provides that purpose and passion for you as opposed to just reading in a book about a certain, you know, approach to cognitive therapy or whatever whatever we're talking about.

But... So walk us through from the bike trip up through today as far as your own career path, and then we can get into some more actionable things that that the real estate entrepreneur might be able to apply to their mindset. Sure. So so, yeah, it it I think even hearing you say that and and appreciate... Yeah.

You're you're... Synopsis so the bike chip for me was... It it was really important. And I was probably the first place where I was choosing my purpose. Mh.

III think that there is certainly spiritual elements and other things that come in that, you know, it's not just my choice. But but I I felt like, up until that point, we're talking about identity, it it was a lot about, you know, how can I make others? How can I think about what others need me to be versus you know, choosing the the person that I feel like I can be and the person that I wanna be? And so, yeah, That... Then after the bike trip, I I took a kinda...

I'm I'm not, you some people might say because I did that bike trip that I'm risk... I'm not risk ave ave, but I I certainly am risk ave ave. Mh. So it's a while to kinda like, slowly step into the mental health field and I took a few classic. The community college near us, then got to my...

I I moved up to New York and New Jersey and ended up getting into Nyu, which at the time, again, that that was, like, an expectation breaker. I, you know, I I didn't see myself as being even I was surprised that I got in. And then I was all a sudden in class with a bunch of people that... Bunch of smart people. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's awesome. I mean, congrats with. And I don't know if you would touch on this, but you also served in the military.

So thank you for your service. Thanks. Yeah. I I was gonna say, yeah. I I took the...

III don't think I have Adhd, but I think that there's a lot that I was doing it at the time I was because I did the Air force reserves, which was a tremendous experience and opportunity, and and, yeah, Thank you for your service, and you've served and You're welcome. That's the only reason I thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It it's important to...

Yeah. Thank ourselves and But... Yeah... So so that was another big growth experience that I I felt like I got. Yeah.

But while I was doing a full time job and Yeah get getting married and and doing... Yeah. Just getting used to the... And then you did the reserves at the same time. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I just... I did all of that as well. It's it's no joke.

That's a lot. And then I know you, you know, your your wife is... Done extra academics or a really impressive program recently, so you all have still had a lot on your plate. So... Yeah.

I I that doesn't... Yeah. I don't think your Adhd either, But, I agree you are you are a methodical careful person. You don't necessarily just jump into risk immediately. So...

But... Okay. So you're it... You find yourself admitted to Nyu. You're in you're you're taking classes there, tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah. I mean, that that really shaped a lot of of what I understood was counseling, I... But before you really get into it, you you have expectations from or thoughts from the media from movies and stuff, And Mh. You know, it's that's that's gonna tell you what to do or you know, how how are you feeling, which I do use that question. But sure.

Is this stereotypical difficult therapists. But, yeah. So I really grew to understand a lot more about people and what I really loved was that, you know, every single person has such a vast different experience. That's what I always, like, come back to, like, why I find it so interesting. And reflecting on economics compared to psychology technologies is interesting because to me, economics was always it's like, what is the rational question was, like, always, like, what's the rational consumer gonna do?

So, like, we're always trying to put this, like, this thought into this 1 rational first and then I go from that, which I really liked to, to now working with not irrational, but just like, everybody has different viewpoints on things. So sure. And yeah. I mean, the the I did abnormal psychology. So, yeah, it's really We're all we're all a little bit crazy.

Right? We more. But, you know, I I get what you're saying is. And people are very complex in and unpredictable and Yeah. If you're ever just bored with life, go study a person right or psychology.

It's like, yeah. It's fascinating. I I mean, I I only took psych 01:01, and I remember being fascinated by the fact that you could... Apparently, if you smile that can induce, you know, happiness or feeling of happiness, And I was blown away, I was like, wait a minute. I thought the smile was just a result of happiness.

And, you know. So... So... Okay. So you you're pursuing your masters at Nyu, and that was largely because of, you know, the family reasons along with the bike trips solidifying your your purpose, and you wanna serve others and you're fascinated by...

Psychology and and, people. And how they think and how they work. And okay. So today, so last year 20 23, you started your counseling service. You have a full time job, but you also have your counseling service, So you have a side hustle.

I think a lot of the listeners can appreciate that. You know, so you've started your kind of side hustle very much related to your your industry, your full time industry. Talk a little bit about J w counseling if you would. Yeah. Absolutely.

The the J w counseling was something that I thought about for a long time, and, yeah. Good good going back to... I I feel like this talking this out has been is interesting too because there's there's certainly a a journey that we all take and and I told other clients this, but hearing you talk about... Psych 01:01, maybe reflect on. I...

I remember in in college, I had to fill a credit, and I went to Psych 01:01 for the first time I was probably 20, and I sat in there and For a day, and I was like, I, what is... What is this? Like, I don't connect to it. Mh. And so it was it was so funny that, you know, a couple of years later and some reflection and and all this, like, that that became, like, what I've really focused on.

I was just Yeah. Confused how I would learn all that stuff. And so, I mean, I just dropped in the class. And Yeah Yeah. Well, timing timing is huge in context.

You know, I mean, I used to appreciate history and now it's like, see history repeating itself there. But okay. So... Yeah. Go ahead.

And and I touched on that because... Yeah, It... It's important. To remember timing like you're saying. And then, like, some another part that I I really think is important for whether it's the bike Trooper or Nyu or counseling is is going into it, but also I'm almost appreciating that there's, like, a naive.

Mh. I I don't even know what to call it, like, just a part that it just doesn't know. Mh. What's you're gonna face. Like, if I, you know, went into the bike trip or this counseling endeavor thinking about all the things that I would have to face or, like, struggle through, it wouldn't be...

I probably wouldn't do it. So, like, Sure. Working with and almost appreciating that, like, almost child like... Mh. I'm just gonna jump into this.

Yeah. See yeah. See how the water feels and you know, I can get out of it if I want, but... Yeah. But, yeah, It's super important to the to make the leap.

And so it it took me a while to to make that leap and and I did put part of what I did for that and to cushion the blow you. Once a... Take the leap was, I know I mentioned the mindset before. I definitely had this idea that the stoic or the kinda III like the idea of Spartan mindset more which to me that kinda means you're gonna push yourself, you're you're gonna be relentless. Mh.

And you're gonna work really hard, but you're not really gonna reward yourself ever. Like, if you ever really let yourself reward reward which you've been doing then that's that's like, boast full or it's selfish or I'm gonna... There's all these things to tie into it and Mh. So along the way, III switched from that to more of a self compassionate mindset, which is based on Kristen Ne work at University of Texas and Chris Gerber, I think, his name is. Just this idea that that the we're all going through something difficult at times.

And it's better instead of ignoring it and pretending like, it doesn't exist. Mh. Which is why I thought stoic was just ignored the emotions. Yeah. And particularly they don't exist, then self compassion teaches to notice it, acknowledge it, but also encourage yourself.

So the 3 parts of of it or self kindness, mindfulness so being present to what's going on with myself or you or anyone else, and then I'm in humanity, recognizing that everybody goes through difficult things Mh. So really tied together a lot for me. Mh. And so bet... That's what I've been working with.

I guess, ever since I started my own business because it's it's a lot to go from a structured. I I mean, I know your listeners. Mh do it a lot to... Like, get going from that w 2 job, which seems stable. Yeah.

Stable is Right. And that seems stable. But Yeah. No. You're right.

And and I... It's... I don't recommend it for everyone at and... You're doing it in a somewhat similar fashion to how I did, which was not ripping off the band aid all at once, and who knows where it will go for you or me for that matter. But, yeah, Some people just jump in with 2 feet.

They just quit their... Quit their job and then don't have a plan and you're you started a side hustle, which I think is really smart, which is related to your industry like we said. So there's not a huge element of risk there. I'd say from the from a business or income standpoint, and I love that. So, okay.

So 20 23, you started the counseling practice. And you're right. It does, though take... You've gotta take action. Oh, it's like still a mindset shift.

To take the action. Okay. So... And I'm I'm jumping around a little bit here, but the self compassion, I guess, where I get hung up, and maybe some listeners do you know, I probably need more self compassion, not not saying I don't, but Does that mean you just... You don't have standards and you just forgive yourself and and you just let yourself slide.

How does how does that work? Yeah. It's a good that's good question. I remember... As was in my internship and when I was just learning about this.

I sent an email to... I believe it was Chris Gerber, who, again is working with Kristen Bath on this whole idea. And that was a risk in stuff like, oh, I'm just gonna emails this person that seems, like they know what they're doing. And Mh. And, yeah, he he responded with a really good point because, yeah, growing up with that mindset of, like, that if you don't keep pushing yourself.

Yeah. Then you're gonna... Like, what's moving you forward It. I I think of it, like, a like, a really good friend. I know we talked offline about this too, But, like, it, you know, a really good friend would not enable you.

They would not just kinda sit there and be, like, Jamie. That's that's great. Like, that that, you know, something the terrible happen And Mh. You know, that a really good friend would be empathetic, but also help... Empower you.

Yeah. And that's really what I I think of, this really important. And so much comes out of, about decision making comes down to empowerment. You know, how can we empower ourselves to make that leap whether it's with the naive of, of the the younger version of ourselves or, know, with that, but also, yeah, I'm from a place of... Okay.

It's the right time and you could do it. So finding that empowerment was a big part of the Yeah. Self patent. What that looks like on a day to day basis is... Yeah.

I'm I'm definitely checking in with myself a lot more. What that means too is, you know, I'll notice and try name like, okay. Before this podcast, I'm feeling some anxiety. And I'm feeling some nervous, noticing the sensations, maybe in my stomach, my chest, my heart beating acknowledging that those things are happening, but also telling myself if you know, I can get through it. Yeah.

Being that encouraging coaching kind of voice versus the hardcore drill sergeant that I thought. Yeah. It was help me. Yeah. That's been a big help.

Sure. To. If you didn't have any nervous, I think I'm... I think this is your first podcast. You know, that would mean to me that you just...

Probably just didn't care enough. You know, so it's a good thing that you've got a little bit of energy and excitement and nervous. You know, So I I don't think stress is bad in that in that sense just might you know, I think stress gets a bad bad wrap these days. But but how do you reconcile and as we as we move toward the end of the episode here, I I have more rapid fire questions. But how do you reconcile, you know, I guess, it's a rep phrasing of the same question from before, you know, somebody like Michael Jordan.

He looked... He's just, like, super driven or at least was. And And was the best basketball player ever to to play? No controversy there. But, you know, wouldn't...

Couldn't you argue that he wouldn't have impacted as many people in a positive way if he'd... Maybe had more self compassion. And you know, wouldn't have given as much to the world. And... I mean, it's just an incredible, what he what he comp accomplished and how do you reconcile those those 2 things?

I think I think being able to... Be okay with yourself while you are going through difficult things is really what self compassion is built on, but it... It's interesting before the podcast started, I was thinking about I thought about a, person that helped Michael Jordan among others and will be Brian and his name George Mum. And he was he he... I don't remember his official title from the bulls, but he was in the last dance and and you can see him there, but he he really was kind of that thoughtful mindfulness teaching person that...

Mindfulness and performance expert is what Google says. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So he...

And he has own adversity and abundance and and, yeah. I would definitely recommend to check his stuff out, but I think it's company back to, you know, just being in the present is is super important important. And I know in the last dance that that's something that's sticking out in my mind right now is that he talked about how what... How he was always present. He was always in the moment.

And Sure. And it's really coming back back to, like, Victor Frank or any of these people that are are really about, you know, finding choice. You know, in any situation, we do have choices And, you know, when we're more present, Right. Ford was, you know, he can make that shot. Right.

And did he think about all that before he made the shot? No, but he... I mean, that there's an element there where it's less about to me? It it seems like it's less about being the The drill sergeant and more, how can I enable myself to be as present as I can? Mh.

So I can make the choice because Yeah. So of the times we feel like it's either... I can either do a or b or ina or have no options. Right. Really, we always have an option, and that's Viktor Frank says, you know, our less freedom is is really to choose the attitude that we want.

And he's going from a concentration camp in Germany so like Serious adversity. Right. So no. That's a great answer with with a about Jordan because so he did have a performance and mindset or mindfulness coach or therapist, whatever. And so it's not like...

You didn't rely on someone like you for to better his performance and also what comes to mind for me is Jordan must have had some self compassion because they say about great athletes you need to be able to kind of have a very short memory you know, in the middle of the game, getting to your point about being present. If he missed 5 shots in a row, he's forgotten about those, and he takes that 6 shot and hits it, because he's present. So if he was overly critical, self critical, he wouldn't have been as good as he was. So, that's that's a great great answer. So before we move on to the rapid fire questions, J w counseling, who's your kind of ideal client or who you looking to work with?

Yeah. Sure. I mean, I I think that that's always developing and changing. But right now, it's individuals, couples and and families. I have a lot of experience with.

Individuals and family in the public sector, but also... Yeah. So so I'm bringing that, and then couples is something Learning... I've been learning about for a long time ever since Nyu and So so that's a new frontier, I guess that I'm thinking thinking and growing in my in my abilities with, but I do feel confident with with that so. All those, I guess...

I guess, topic wise, you know, anxiety, depression, Adhd, Ptsd. So reworking traumas. But like you said, Jamie man, and I'm I'm really of the opinion that everybody... Whether we wanna call it a trauma Lake, there's always impactful things that happen in everyone's life that, you know, if my, you know, our profession sometimes I just call a capital t trauma like, just because you don't have a capital t trauma being, like, you know, I survived an earthquake or something. Mh.

Catastrophic doesn't mean that that we can't, like, rework some of those beliefs that come from. Mh. From, Sure. Yeah. And you work in with, in person as well as online, and I noticed, you have the Walk and talk option as well.

How would you say you separate yourself from other all the other therapists out there. What's your... How's your approach unique? My approach is unique. I I...

The Walk and talk is a newer thing and it's certainly grown in, from Covid. Maybe So it's a mask. We're wearing mask and walking. I'm just kidding. No.

But and and and that comes from also... Yeah. My I reached to the bike trip and knowing that how important... Like you said, nature, exercise. And, also, there...

There's something about walking because you don't have to see eye to eye, like, there's an element there where it's really comforting. And it's like your your side by side on the journey together kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Side by side on a journey, also, to get 2 into the science, but, yeah, What when you're looking specifically or...

Directly into someone else's eyes, like, eye contact can be feel very uncomfortable even when we're sharing something vulnerable. So that's that's something thing I think I separate myself with. Being that energetic, kind and passionate person that's always gonna see the the cherish the defined within that... That's the Catholic Charities. View...

Something that I've really remember and something that I I take from a lot of the different Yeah. Therapy roots that that I listen to that that that we all have inner wisdom to guide us that we all have the sense of self or soul or whatever we wanna call it, yeah. I mean, that that's always what I'm coming back to is that I I really... I love what I do and and I really enjoy working with people and the rich tapestry tree of... Yeah.

Whatever we going on with. Well, like... It looks we highlighted you've had... So personal, your own personal, trauma as well as, you know, very, real family struggles, and so you have that that drive from that pain that's been experienced, and then you wanna help others deal with similar situations you know, so I I think that's huge as well. Alright.

You ready for some rapid fire questions. We're almost out of time. Do you my best? Yeah. And I just wanna say you are an awesome listener as well as somebody who takes action and kinda have those really good blend of...

I'll just say you know... Masculine and feminine traits in a sense where it's, like, you're a hardcore, like, when you we work out, It's like, you're not messing around. You know, so you're not you're not afraid of hard work. Like you said 10. But then sort of that more...

We'll say passive, but it's really active listening, which, I would argue most therapists probably don't have such an awesome blend of that the skill. So alright. Thanks. If you could have coffee with any historical figure or a bourbon, if you prefer, who would... Who would you choose?

I guess I have an irish coffee with theodore Roosevelt. First person. Okay. Nice. If you were given 10000000 dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it?

It's funny. Yeah. That that puts a lot of responsibility on me. Like, I I feel like, I would I certainly, do try the tit idea get giving away a certain amount, growing the J w counseling would be something else. Also an offs shoot.

I know you've had another guest on here, but starting a bike trip business, or bicycle trip. Yeah. Business will be another element, more more of a wellness less therapy direct. But... Yeah.

So so those were things that come to mind? Awesome. Yeah. How about a book or 2 that you could recommend for my listener? A book or 2, I referenced Viktor Frank, people have to read for meeting.

It's such a... Yeah. You else... You may have mentioned mentioned that 1 to me once or. 200 times.

Yeah. So there there's so much to gain from from his experience and and yes. So so managers answers for meaning, and and it applies to everybody. It's not just men. I guess another 1 that I'm reading right now is get out of my.

I'm just looking, get out of your mind and into your life. Mh. It's about acceptance and commitment therapy. So working with our cognition and how we grew to understand our own thinking. So, like, how can we understand our thinking and how can we change it to make get more helpful what's a what's a struggle that you're facing in your business right now?

Even with the jumping in, like, like, I said on the empowerment. There's still strong avoidance sometimes, like, base some of those things that even, yeah objectively, sometimes you same aloud and you're, like, why am I avoiding that Like, that insurance company to to get credential children for something like Mh. I don't know why. But I know I'll get... I'll get there.

So, yeah, again, being passionate. Yeah. Well, Think it sounds like this has been therapeutic for you, so I'll I'll invoice you after this. Right So so if you can recap and we're almost at of time here, But so for the the listeners say the real estate entrepreneur, I know you're not necessarily a real estate entrepreneur, but you are an entrepreneur and you deal heavily with mental health and mental fitness. 1 or 2 takeaways or kind of steps for the real estate entrepreneur out there.

What would you say that it... That those would be? Yeah. I think I think a lot of it can be applicable to decision making. You know, how do we come from that?

And where do we make good decisions? Is it out of a scarcity fear based mindset or is it from a... It doesn't always have to be compassion? You but a place of real wisdom and and an empowerment to to make the decisions that we need to make. So, I mean, whether that's making a counseling company or it's buying another house or and and I I know we've talked a lot about bigger pockets throughout the year.

So I mean, I I always really liked those those podcasts with brandon and talking about, just ways to to make wise decisions sure from mindset and Absolutely. Mindset. Love that. From adversity to abundance from a mind mindset standpoint. Right?

Awesome. What's 1 thing that's controversial in in the therapy world that you see today? A the type of therapy that I am really getting into is internal family systems, and the Frank Anderson and Richard... Well Richard Schwartz is the founder. And his his big thing is that there's no bad parts of us.

So while that might not seem controversial, you know, you talk to someone that is quote unquote, an alcoholic. Mh. Yeah. That quickly becomes well, that's that's not a good part of me. Sure.

The part of the drinks. But... So understand that we all have... Parts that might be difficult to relate to that we might hate about ourselves. Mh.

That... That's really at the core trying to change the change the connection that we have our relationship through those parts but certainly controversial to say that that there's no bad parts when a lot of mental health is based on getting rid of a symptom, but really, we're trying to What's the bad in with the good. Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

From Dominic and Montgomery. Alright. John Wen, J w counseling. We are out of time. I know you...

You and I both have another call to hop on here. So thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your story as well as just your, you know, the the changes you've made in your own, view of yourself introducing more self compassion, but also the encouragement to continue that growth along that growth path, and and and that doesn't mean self compassion doesn't mean limiting yourself, it it it actually can be very much in support of growth and serving others, and kudos to you for starting your own business, and I highly recommend the listener if you wanna if you need AAA quality therapist, I definitely recommend you reach out to to John for sure. So, John, any words of of wisdom as we sign off? Thank you. So much, Jamie, and I I appreciate you and and the opportunity and the time.

And yeah. It's it's been wonderful. So thanks. Awesome. And to the listener.

Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey.

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